#11  
Old 11-02-2005, 09:47 PM
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Default Great dough forming photos!

#65

(M) Thanks, Paul for the great dough ball forming shots, and the important one of dough in the mixer giving us Newbies an idea of how wet the dough should be.

(M) You wrote, in part:


(P) "(the motion of my hands in the photos is counter-clockwide, turning the doughball clockwise)"

(M) Is that a "typo"; if I move my hands counter-clockwise against a ball of dough it appears to also turn counter-clockwise. Am I missing something?

Ciao,

Marcel
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  #12  
Old 11-03-2005, 12:45 PM
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it's not a typo. the motion of the hands is actually more of an up and down movement (away from you and back), with a slight circular pattern.

in the first motion, the forward pressure is mostly on your left hand, and the right hand is pushing leftward (so you are actually going in kind of a diagonal to the upper left) and so the forward motion moves it clockwise. then the pressure reverses. you are next pushing downward (back towards yourself) with the pinky part of the heel of your right hand, and pushing rightward with the left hand. the right hand is continuing the clockwise motion of the doughball, by pulling the right side of it down. the total motion of your hands is more of a counter-clockwise oval, rather than a circle.

this is really an over-explanation of something that takes about 5 seconds max. to do, and becomes second nature after you figure it out.
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  #13  
Old 11-03-2005, 02:25 PM
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Default I *did* miss something and you clarified it. Thanks.

(M) After reading your explanation I understand that the dough ball indeed moves in a clockwise pattern. I'm sure that learning the motion well only takes a few minutes of finger intelligence. Grazia, and

Ciao,

Marcel
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  #14  
Old 11-03-2005, 11:25 PM
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Default Pizza Dough Photos

Paul,

Thanks for the photos. Eccelente. I recognize that mixer. :-) I think we even have the same color.

The photo of the moist dough ball in the mixer is telling for how far you want to hydrate your flour. Nice.

From the point that you have formed your dough balls, how long do you let them rest (and the gluton relax) before you throw your pizzas?

Do you (when, and for how long) put them in the refrigerator, and/or do you use a dough storage tray?

Inquiring minds...

James
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  #15  
Old 11-13-2005, 11:07 AM
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right now, i shoot for an 8 hour total make/proof period. i made these for a party on friday:

(that's three batches in the mixer)

i got a late start, around 11-noon, so i set the dough a little warmer than usual (105deg F or so for the water). i started cooking the first pizzas around 4:30, and they were turning out a little flat. i had a gig to go to at 7, so i had no choice but to go at it. by 5 or 5:30, they were starting to rise nicely and get bubbly on the crusts. i posted a picture on another thread of one of these, i believe: http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/show...=1742#post1742

i think 6 hours would have been a more realistic "quick dough." this recipe (pretty much the official V.P.N. recipe) doesn't seem to respond well to refrigeration. the dough becomes tougher, even if it was proofed well before. i need to develop a more flexible dough regimen with this recipe, especially if i'm working towards a commercial routine. a viable alternative to refrigeration might be balling in hourly intervals. i think the initial fermentation is more flexible than the proofing of the formed doughballs.
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  #16  
Old 11-13-2005, 11:10 AM
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sorry, james. i just realized that i didn't answer one of your questions directly. i shoot for a four hour proof after ball formation. sometimes that's too much, but i'd rather work with a dough that's more delicate to shape and get in the oven (though that really can be a pain in tha ass with the aluminum peel) but cooks well than one that shapes well but is flat.
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  #17  
Old 11-14-2005, 09:15 PM
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Paul,

I hope it was a great party. The dough balls sure look good. I wonder why the dough balls don't like refrigeration. Is it too cold? You should try the Caputo flour and tell us what you think.

Are you making your pizzas on a marble counter (ala VPN), and setting them in the oven with an aluminum peel, or assembling your pizzas on wooden peels and sliding them into the oven from the peel?

Also, what are you using to cover you pizza ball? Cloth, moist cloth? plastic wrap? Proofing box? I find that you can get a tough skin if you don't take care with the top. I have seen a lot of pizzaiolos flip the pizza ball, so the bottom becomes the pizza top -- to use the fresh side.

The comment on the forum from the pizza making site is very good. Lift an edge to get a some air below the base of the pizza, and it is a lot easier to get the aluminum peel under it.

Nice new Avatar.

James
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  #18  
Old 11-14-2005, 10:04 PM
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yeah, i'm not sure why they react that way to the cold. at every commercial establishment i have worked at, i always set the dough, let it proof, formed the balls, let it proof briefly, then put them in refrigeration, where they finished proofing slowly. maybe my refrigerator is too cold, but health dept. standards usually put commercial refrigerators at or below 38 deg. F, which is probably colder than my home fridge. i would like to try the caputo flour. i'm using a 00 flour right now, which should be similar.

you know, i have always used the 'blow under' method with a wood peel, but for some reason i have not been using it with the aluminum peel. i think it's because my pizzas are always at the edges of the peel, and sometimes the airbubble can cause it to glide off a little too soon! i'll try it next time. it really does help a lot, and blows out excess flour so it doesn't cook to the bottom of the pizza.

i do use the VPN method of preparing on the countertop and using an aluminum placing peel. i'm not really having too many problems with this method, but it does stick occasionally, which never happens to me with a wooden peel. right now, i am preparing the pettolas on a formica counter, but i have granite counters available (i haven't got around to finishing all of them, and the biggest one is still formica).

i cover with plastic, though i've tried moist cloth and not noticed a positive difference. if anything, the plastic works better, and i always have grocery bags laying around. i brush the doughballs with olive oil and cup my hand over each ball after laying the plastic on, sticking the plastic to the surface. i never have tough spots.
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  #19  
Old 11-20-2005, 08:56 PM
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Hi Paul,

Thanks for the dough pictures and all the pizza builing info in this thread.

When you start making the pizzas, do you take one dough ball, form it, do the toppings and place it in the oven before you do the next one, or do you form a few before you start putting the toppings on? If you do the latter, do you cover flattened ones until you get to them or not?

How do you transfer the pizza from the formica top to the peel once it is built?

Thanks

Johann
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  #20  
Old 11-21-2005, 02:24 AM
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i would like to build several at once, and put them in consecutively for 90 sec. pizzas, but logistically this is hard for me with my make table being a bit far from my oven. right now, it's one at a time. besides, kim and i have a rhythm worked out where one of us tosses and tops, and the other works the oven: placing, turning and removing the pizzas. if you let the dough sit for too long after tossing it, it rises and becomes much looser, and harder to get in the oven, so tossing several at once really only works if you get them in quickly, especially with the aluminum peel.

i slide my aluminum peel under the pizza after topping in and transfer it to the oven--a la pizza nepolitana tradition. i did make a wooden peel the other day to try and make NY style pizza in the oven. for this, i always use the 'airbubble' method described previously. the place i work uses corn meal on the wooden peel, but i prefer a light dusting of flour which gets mostly blown out when you blow the air under the pizza.
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