#21  
Old 08-25-2009, 06:38 PM
Il Pizzaiolo
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: San Antonio
Posts: 1,719
Default Re: Confused

Hi Timmy!

dmun is right. Bags are a mess. But I use them anyway. (We all have our perversions!)

IF you form the balls before retarding they can be dealt with lots of ways. On parchment adjacent (and yes they will grow together and have to be separated). In containers as dmun says (which is a great way to go). Or... the evil way, in bags. When I bag I first open ALL the bags. Then I have a small bowl of olive oil to dip the balls into and smear all over and then they go in the bag. Adding a little extra olive oil is okay. I seal mine but I don't squeeze all the air out. They will swell as the dough rises. And they often stick in the bag but it doesn't cause me any problem.

Back to your dough. You have used oil, and sugar, and mineral water and who knows what else. In my experience the best doughs are straight doughs - no oil, no sugar (except perhaps to check the yeast!), just flour, water and salt. The other stuff is IMO fluff. (Which I am sure will bring on the wrath of the oil and sugar afficianados!)

One last comment re: deep dish which you have also alluded to. Focaccia is effectively deep dish pizza. I do it pretty regularly with REALLY WET DOUGH (about 80% water by weight and it is HEAVENLY. The best recipe I know is in "American Pie" by Reinhart. It sings!

Two things to buy - scales (as dmun suggests volumes are for people who like to fail) and American Pie!

Jay
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  #22  
Old 08-26-2009, 04:51 AM
Serf
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Chicago
Posts: 13
Default Re: Confused

Well last night I did a yeast proofing and the mix became very foamy and active (1.25 teaspoons). So I added it to 4 cups 00 flour, and two teaspoons of salt and 1 1/4 cup water. I kneaded it until it was smooth, I split it into two balls of dough and put them each into a ziplock bag with plenty of room to grow. I eagerly checked it this morning to see the growth. Guess what? Nothing. It hardly grew at all. ARGHGHGHG! What the heck? Are you sure only 1.25 teaspoons of yeast and not tablespoons?
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  #23  
Old 08-26-2009, 06:26 AM
Il Pizzaiolo
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: San Antonio
Posts: 1,719
Default Re: Confused

The balls usually won't grow much in the bags in the fridge. But it does depend a bit on the yeast. The balls can be stored up to 3 days or so. What is happening in the fridge is MAINLY enzyme action breaking down the flour into sugars so that when the ball comes to room temp it should rise pretty rapidly.

That said, I have two refrigerators - one at 35 (which gives very low growth) and one at 38 which has some growth overnight. If your fridge is below about 36 the growth overnight will be minimal.

The balls SHOULD roughly double in two hours after being put at room temp. For fun, pull one about 4 hours early (if you can) and one at two and see how they compare. They should behave well.

One last item - you still haven't said what kind of yeast you are using. Instant is much preferred over regular dry yeast - has something like 4-5X the live yeast cells and doesn't need to be proofed (can be mixed straight in the flour). If you put regular dry yeast in flour without proofing it is MUCH slower for it simply doesn't have enough cells to "spring" to life.

The salt, yeast, flour, and water are all approximately right. It should work fine - but it IS a pretty wet dough and I suspect the balls spread in the bag quite a bit which makes it harder to see the rise.

Look forward to your next report!
Jay
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  #24  
Old 08-26-2009, 06:40 AM
Serf
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Chicago
Posts: 13
Default Re: Confused

Wow, this site is great. I posted about an hour ago and I already got a reply with great advice. Someday I will be giving advice to a new person I hope. You know I may be overreacting. I think the dough did actually double in size, I was just expecting it to be huge and busting out of the bag. I think that it is still going to give me a good pizza. Thursday night I plan on firing up the grill and making the pizza. I'll double check the type of yeast I'm using when I get home tonight, but I'm in the food to see some baseball so I'm gonna walk across the street and watch the Cubs get slaughtered. Thanks man.
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  #25  
Old 08-26-2009, 11:34 AM
Il Pizzaiolo
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: San Antonio
Posts: 1,719
Default Re: Confused

If it grew at all in the fridge it is fine. The whole point of chilling it is to have it NOT burst out of the bag! It will grow dramatically when you warm it up to its happy zone of 70-80 for an hour or two.

One last comment. If doesn't rise, don't bake it. You already know what the inisipid results are!
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  #26  
Old 08-26-2009, 11:56 AM
Master Builder
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 942
Default Re: Confused

I'm new to this and have been using Trader Joe's fresh dough these past several weeks with mixed results, mostly due to my cooking method, using a Lodge cast iron pizza pan either on the weber kettle or the gas grill.

But this week I picked up some SAF instant yeast and King Arthur unbleached all purpose flour from my local Smart & Final warehouse. I followed Peter Reinhart's Napoletana dough recipe and made a batch this morning for use tomorrow. I kneaded the dough by hand. Hope they come out good.
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  #27  
Old 08-26-2009, 02:28 PM
Il Pizzaiolo
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: San Antonio
Posts: 1,719
Default Re: Confused

I know this will sound crazy fxpose, but I strongly urge you to try Reihart's grilled pizza dough recipe. It is a bit drier and tougher but you can grill it ON the grill, no need for the pan. American Pie describes how to do it! It IS reall good!
Jay
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