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-   -   ____ Dough Trouble _____ (http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/f10/____-dough-trouble-_____-17844.html)

xfire 06-03-2012 02:54 PM

____ Dough Trouble _____
 
I am still in the experimental stage of honing my pie making ability, and that's being generous!

I have read MANY of the tips regarding ingredients, dough type, and mixing.

Here are some questions that some of the more experienced may be able to help with.

1) When measuring the quantity of dough, are we talking before or after sifting, and is it correct to sift?

2) Are quantities always measured by "weight" and not volume?

3) I have not been able to get my hands on any type of dough other than that specified for bread making. The crust so far taste good but too much like "bread".
I am after a more airy and light finished product. Any thoughts on how that might be achieved?

4) What is SAF? I have read that it should be used instead of yeast.

5) Does it matter whether the dough is 'pressed out' - 'rolled' - or 'worked by hand' when preparing the final stage for a better result.

Purplegoanna 06-04-2012 04:44 AM

Re: ____ Dough Trouble _____
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by xfire (Post 132581)
I am still in the experimental stage of honing my pie making ability, and that's being generous!

I have read MANY of the tips regarding ingredients, dough type, and mixing.

Here are some questions that some of the more experienced may be able to help with.

1) When measuring the quantity of dough, are we talking before or after sifting, and is it correct to sift?

2) Are quantities always measured by "weight" and not volume?

3) I have not been able to get my hands on any type of dough other than that specified for bread making. The crust so far taste good but too much like "bread".
I am after a more airy and light finished product. Any thoughts on how that might be achieved?

4) What is SAF? I have read that it should be used instead of yeast.

5) Does it matter whether the dough is 'pressed out' - 'rolled' - or 'worked by hand' when preparing the final stage for a better result.

1) I neva sift flour,neva have neva will..;)

2) In the following recipe i do it all by volume..;)

3) Try all purpose flour or 00 gradeflour, best not to use the budget brands of flour..;)

4) SAF is a form of yeast from what i understand.(i prefer the small tinfoil packets of dry granule yeast over the jars of dry granule yeast)

5) I roll my hands into knuckles then use my knuckles in a rocking motions to spread the dough out, dosnt have to be perfect.

This is a adaption of Peter reinharts famous recipe...this is my easier NEW ZEALAND version of it, you CANNOT go wrong with this pizza base :)

4 1/2 cups unbleached all-purpose flour, chilled (kept in fridge)
1 3/4 teaspoons salt
1 teaspoon instant yeast (i prefer dry packet yeast over jar dry yeast)
1/4 cup olive oil
1 3/4 cups water, ice-cold

Semolina flour OR cornmeal for dusting

Directions:

* Mix together the flour, salt, & instant yeast in a large bowl. With a wooden spoon, stir in the oil & the cold water until the flour is all absorbed. The you are ready to start mixing by hand, pull the dough from the sides of the bowl into the middle of the bowl & gently punch that pull amount into the middle of the dough then rotate bowl & repeat while rotating the bowl in a circular motion with the other hand. Reverse the circular motion a few times to develop the gluten further. Do this for 5 to 7 minutes, or until the dough is smooth and the ingredients are evenly distributed. The dough should clear the sides of the bowl but stick to the bottom of the bowl. If the dough is too wet & doesn’t come off the sides of the bowl, sprinkle in some more flour just until it clears the sides. If it clears the bottom of the bowl, dribble in a teaspoon or two of cold water. The finished dough will be springy, elastic, and sticky/tacky.

* Sprinkle flour on the counter & transfer the dough to the counter. Using a knife, cut the dough into 4 equal pieces (or 2 larger if you are comfortable shaping large pizzas). Sprinkle flour over the dough. Lift each piece & gently round it into a ball. If the dough sticks to your hands, dip your hands into the flour again. Transfer the dough balls to a separate oiled bowls or a oiled baking tray, Mist the dough generously with spray oil & cover the bowls/tray into a food-grade plastic wrap.

* Put the bowls/tray into the refrigerator overnight to rest the dough, or keep for up to 3 days. (Note: If you want to save some of the dough for future baking, you can store the dough balls in a zippered freezer bag. Dip each dough ball into a bowl that has a few tablespoons of oil in it, rolling the dough in the oil, & then put each ball into a separate bag. You can place the bags into the freezer for up to 3 months. Transfer them to the refrigerator the day before you plan to make pizza.)

* On the day you plan to make the pizza, remove the desired number of dough balls from the refrigerator 2 hours before making the pizza. >>Let the dough rest at >warm< room temperature for 2 hours.<<

* Generously dust a peel or the back of a sheet pan with semolina flour or cornmeal. Make the pizzas one at a time. Dip your hands, including the backs of your hands and knuckles, in flour. Clench your hands into knuckles then use your knuckles in a rocking motion to spread the dough out, dosnt have to be perfect, then continue shaping it. You can also resort to using a rolling-pin.

* When the dough is stretched out to your satisfaction (about 9 to 12 inches in diameter for a 6-ounce piece of dough), lay it on the peel, making sure there is enough semolina flour or cornmeal to allow it to slide. Lightly top it with sauce and then with your other toppings, remembering that the best pizzas are topped with a less-is-more philosophy. A few, usually no more than 3 or 4 toppings, including sauce and cheese is sufficient.

* Slide the topped pizza onto the oven floor. Wait 2 minutes, then take a peek. If it needs to be rotated 180 degrees for even baking, do so. The pizza should take about 5 to 8 minutes to bake. If the top gets done before the bottom, you will need to wiat until the oven cools down abit, if the bottom crisps before the cheese caramelizes, then you will need to raise the oven temp with a for abit longer.

* Remove the pizza from the oven and transfer to a cutting board. Wait 3 to 5 minutes before slicing and serving, to allow the cheese to set slightly.

(p.s when rolling out the dough before using i sometimes sprinkle parmesan cheese over the base and gently press into the mix OR use small long lengths of cheese and place around edges then fold edges over to make a stuffed crust OR when making a sweet/dessert pizza sprinkle sugar over and gently roll/press into the dough.)

xfire 06-04-2012 09:32 PM

Re: ____ Dough Trouble _____
 
Purplegoanna - Thank you for your extensive write up. I will attempt to follow your recipe on my next firing.

I only have one question: What about using my KA to mix the ingredients? Do you have any recommendations on mixing time and speeds?

Thank you

Purplegoanna 06-04-2012 09:39 PM

Re: ____ Dough Trouble _____
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by xfire (Post 132657)
Purplegoanna - Thank you for your extensive write up. I will attempt to follow your recipe on my next firing.

I only have one question: What about using my KA to mix the ingredients? Do you have any recommendations on mixing time and speeds?

Thank you

to be humbly honest it was a mere copy and paste with adaptions made to make it seem like less work.....im assuming a KA is some sort of mixer? and to be honest again mixing by hand only takes under 10mins and its so much more organic.. ;) i like doing it...makes the base taste better! :) the above recipe is relatively simple, its just a matter of mixing your ingredients into the correct consistency then wrapping and proving until your ready to use it...i LOVE this recipe because i can make it the day beforehand (so thats the dough outta the way on the night) and then you just whip it out 2hrs before you use it and let it rise in a warm spot befre you knead it out. see my pizza oven being made and the end result here http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?s...3&l=5576d83f2a

petanque 08-04-2012 05:25 AM

Re: ____ Dough Trouble _____
 
you need to develop the gluten.

this can be done by stretching a small piece if dough to see how thin it will get before it tears.
In Australia this is called a gluten test.

Asking Google it can also be called a windowpane test

a basic description can be found at

Gluten Development (with Windowpane Photos) | Wild Yeast

kneading time?

there are to many variables to give a precise answer.

there are machines that can fully develop gluten in less than 2 minutes a typical home mixer would take 10 - 15 minutes.

hand kneading is very variable depending on your strength and technique.

kkgator 08-04-2012 05:42 AM

Re: ____ Dough Trouble _____
 
I recommend "American Pie" by Peter Reinhart as a starting point for reference. I have also found, "The Art of Wood Fire Cooking" helpful as well.
You can use your KA mixer and it will save time, but like previous posters I agree the hand method is a much more organic process and there is something extra special about making your own dough by hand. When I started the dough making process by hand almost 2 years ago, my attempts were abysmal at best which can be verified by my family members. I use Active Dry Yeast & Caputo 00. I do not use oil or sugar at all. I do not bloom my yeast and I mix by hand. The humidity helps here in Florida with not needing as much yeast. I have blown out more dough that I can count on 2 hands.

Best advice: Find a recipe that you like, taylor it to how your kitchen equipment/environment work and make subtle changes until you can achieve a consistent product time and time again.

petanque 08-04-2012 10:27 PM

Re: ____ Dough Trouble _____
 
If you mean kitchen aid by KA it seems the kitchen aid mixers sold in Australia have plastic gears and are not up to mixing bread dough.


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