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burning crust in my primavera 70

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  • burning crust in my primavera 70

    hi, i am having a hard time cooking in my primavera 70. i want to list my problem and possible reasons ,hopefully someone can help rule out certain items, so i can cook a constant pizza.
    i fire my oven hot trying to do a pizza in under 90 seconds,850 deg floor top about the same . my pizzas burn before the dough sets enough to turn it. i use caputo flour at 60 % hydration salt and yeast. the oven interior is only 28 inches so the pizza sits within four inches of the flame. also, my stand allows water to get under the oven ,which pours out of a hole under the floor, this water get very warm and i am wondering if it is allowing steam to build up and absorbing into the oven floor. am i cooking to hot? and to close to the flame? i had better success when the oven was newer . i should be getting better not worse. i am going to go for a 750 deg floor and top tonight to see if i have better luck. can any one tell me if that 850 range is realistic or wether the water under the floor may be a cause. i am very happy with my oven but experimenting with higher temp has me frustrated thank for any help. larry
    Last edited by thezaman; 07-25-2009, 05:20 PM.

  • #2
    Re: burning crust in my primavera 70

    Since I have a brick built Pompeii the only thing I can say is - 850 degrees is doable, BUT you can't take your eyes off of it for more than a second. I actually prefer hearth temps around 825, 850 max. My dome is usually kissing 1000 degrees. Usually 2 turns about thirty seconds apart.....and they are done. I would drop down in temp, like you mentioned, also maybe have less fire and coals in while cooking. After all, it is a small oven, once up to temp it shouldn't take a big fire and pile of coals to have great results. So we are told, the Primaveras are very efficient.

    Hopefully James will chime in...he has the most experience with the Primavera.



    • #3
      Re: burning crust in my primavera 70

      my oven is small and I find that there are too many coals and not enough floor space for cooking, so I usually remove half the coals and then if cooking a large number of pizzas (over 10) I maintain a fire on the side. If I don't remove some coals then the pizza tends to burn on the outside edges because they're too close to fire.
      Kindled with zeal and fired with passion.


      • #4
        Re: burning crust in my primavera 70

        Thank you for your response I hope James can respond . I had a pizzaiola from cleveland visit last week and he had to cook in the oven entrance. I am trying tonight at a lower temp. I love Wfo and am talking to Forno bravo about one for my restaurant .


        • #5
          Re: burning crust in my primavera 70

          Try bumping up the hydration, I am at 65 to 67 percent with caputo.
          My Oven Thread:


          • #6
            Re: burning crust in my primavera 70

            I really don't like the water coming out of the pan bit. Wet insulation is ineffective insulation. As I don't know the Primavera, I can't say anything, and I hope James will jump in at some point.

            As to the burning crust, two observations. Make sure your fire's been pushed to the side for quite some time before you cook on the floor. A floor that's just had the fire on top of it may be too hot.

            Second, are you sure it's the crust that's burning? You aren't using cornmeal as your release agent, are you? (it's full of sugar) That's a common crust burning problem.
            My geodesic oven project: part 1, part 2


            • #7
              Re: burning crust in my primavera 70

              thanks for all of the responses ! I think that 850 plus degrees is to hot for the primavera ,the close proximity to the coals makes the front edge cook to fast. By the time that the dough bakes enough to spin it, the front by the coals is smoked. I am using james recipe with less hydration 60 % ,i do not add anything to the dough as i am trying to make a vpn margarita . If i settle on about 725 to 750 floor temp the pizza cooks in under 90 seconds. plus, i can uses less wood so it sits further away from the pizzas. The only negative is my pizza crust is a little to chewy. the vpn pizzeria i am trying to get my pizza to taste like has a very soft easy to chew crust .So any thoughts on that?


              • #8
                Re: burning crust in my primavera 70

                I have a Primavera 60 and have had fantastic success with it. I start cooking the pizza (using the Forno Bravo VPN recipe) at around 750 degree floor temp. Pizza is about 3 minutes but turns out very good. I think the higher hydration dough may help you out. Also, I tried using cornmeal in the very beginning and it burned up immediately and made a mess. I just use the tipo flour for dusting.


                • #9
                  Re: burning crust in my primavera 70

                  Thanks for your response, what is the characteristic of your dough, is it a soft chewy dough,or is it a tougher chew, mine is a tougher chew.I have a hard time stretching the hi hydration dough. Can you tell me your method?


                  • #10
                    Re: burning crust in my primavera 70

                    I have a hard time stretching the hi hydration dough
                    tough crust + hard to stretch may mean too much dough handling. You should handle your dough as little as possible once it's been portioned and balled. Any attempt to re-kneed your dough after your second rise makes it impossible to stretch, and tough.

                    Higher hydration doughs do need practice to handle. I tend to think that super-hydrated doughs absorb so much bench flour that you're going to a lower hydration anyway. I've settled on 63 as a good medium.
                    My geodesic oven project: part 1, part 2


                    • #11
                      Re: burning crust in my primavera 70

                      Here is some video of my primavera 60


                      • #12
                        Re: burning crust in my primavera 70

                        Thanks ,I have watched your video many times!! Are you a distributor for forno bravo? The primavera 60 should be a great seller it's priced right and it is built solid .As this wood fired pizza movement grows i think this little oven will become very popular . The 70 requires more handling and it is not quite as convenient but i like the extra cooking area.


                        • #13
                          Re: burning crust in my primavera 70

                          i have better luck with a eight hour room temp bulk rise .i cut and kneed each ball about one hour before baking. it relaxes and has a more bread dough look to it,rises up not out. when i do a 48 hour cold rise the dough spreads when it rises and becomes very sticky much harder to work with. but,i think i have to master it to get the softer less chewy pizza crust. thanks for your input.


                          • #14
                            Re: burning crust in my primavera 70


                            My dough is definately a soft dough and tender when cooked. Following the Forno Bravo recipe for ingerdients I add all the dry ingredients to my bosch universal mixer. I then add the water and let the mixer do its thing for 6 minutes. I then put the dough in a large cambro food storage container with the snap on lid.
                            Cambro RFS6 6 Qt. Round White Food Storage Container

                            I put the dough in the fridge for a 24 hour bulk rise.
                            After the bulk rise I remove the dough from the fridge and make it into 280 gram dough balls and place in my dough pans with lids for another 24 hours in the fridge.
                            8" Round Stacking Dough Pan

                            The day of cooking I take my dough out of the fridge when I start my fire. By the time the oven is ready--about an hour +---my dough is at a nice temp. to start making pizza. I have a large bowl with tipo 00 in it that I drop the dough ball out of the dough pan into and then flip over to get flour on both sides of my dough. I then transter into wooden peel for stretching. The dough stretches very easily and is tender. Then top and into oven.