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Proofing Issues

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  • Proofing Issues

    I've been making bread and pizza dough for years, but just tried the FB Caputo pizza dough recipe. I'm using a mix of Caputo 00 and KA bread flour, and am making half-batches until I get it right. Halving the FB recipe results in 1/4 teaspoon of yeast, which is what I'm using. This is the first yeast dough I've made without adding sugar.

    The problem: When proofing the dough, there is virtually no rise. I've let the first proof go 3 hours and nothing has happened. I've never had this happen before. As a fix, I tried letting just the yeast and warm water sit for 5 minutes before adding the flour, but that didn't help.

    Any ideas?

  • #2
    Re: Proofing Issues

    Originally posted by Marcos View Post
    I've been making bread and pizza dough for years, but just tried the FB Caputo pizza dough recipe. I'm using a mix of Caputo 00 and KA bread flour, and am making half-batches until I get it right. Halving the FB recipe results in 1/4 teaspoon of yeast, which is what I'm using. This is the first yeast dough I've made without adding sugar.

    The problem: When proofing the dough, there is virtually no rise. I've let the first proof go 3 hours and nothing has happened. I've never had this happen before. As a fix, I tried letting just the yeast and warm water sit for 5 minutes before adding the flour, but that didn't help.

    Any ideas?
    Marcos
    Temperature in the area where the dough is kept while rising...is it Instant Dry or Active Dry yeast...
    Best
    Dutch
    "Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity. " Charles Mingus
    "Build at least two brick ovens...one to make all the mistakes on and the other to be just like you dreamed of!" Dutch

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Proofing Issues

      How old is your yeast? Any chance it's lost its zing.
      James
      Pizza Ovens
      Outdoor Fireplaces

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      • #4
        Re: Proofing Issues

        Hi,

        The guys are right the first thing to check is your yeast. Assuming it's the right kind, make sure it's still viable. Easiest way to do that is use a recipe that you know works.

        Also, go back over the recipe and make absolutely certain you got your proportions right. A mistake there will murder your yeast.

        If all of that checks out, then you probably need to play with proportions of your flour. Since you're not feeding the yeast the flour has to do it. Your blend may simply not have enough carbs.
        "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

        "Success isn't permanent and failure isn't fatal." -Mike Ditka
        [/CENTER]

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        • #5
          Re: Proofing Issues

          Now I am confused....Marcos mentions halving the FB recipe to 1/4 teaspoon of yeast. My question, is this really enough (or 1/2 teaspoon for a full 4 cup flour batch)?

          I just checked out the recipe that is currently listed.....sure enough 1/2 teaspoon is what it says. When was this drastic reduction in yeast made? I am looking at the recipe that shipped with my original order of Caputo flour as well as the identical recipe that I printed from the forum at the same time; both clearly call for 2 teaspoons for the 4 cups of flour.
          I can say that I have tinkered quite a bit with both the yeast and salt amounts, but have never used less than 1 teaspoon with good results. Maybe this works if you are putting in the fridge overnight (or longer) AFTER the 1 1/2 - 2 hr proof, but I'm pretty certain you won't have enough rise (at least I have not) from the basic proof time and then using the dough the same day or within a few hrs.
          I'm certainly far from an expert, I only know what has worked and has not worked for me...this minimal amount of yeast just doesn't seem right.

          RT

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          • #6
            Re: Proofing Issues

            Actually RT, I'd wondered the same thing. It didn't sound like enough to me when I read the recipe, but I've never made that recipe before. But the more I think about it, the more I think you're right, it's probably that there isn't enough yeast.
            "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

            "Success isn't permanent and failure isn't fatal." -Mike Ditka
            [/CENTER]

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Proofing Issues

              That is the amount of yeast ( active dry yeast) I use without any problem. After mixing the dough - 45 minutes on the counter. Make dough balls. 24 hrs in the fridge and then about an hour to warm up. No problems. Makes great dough. If I want to push the time frame (like when I forget to make dough the day before) I will increase the yeast to 1 or 1.5 tsp and produce usable dough within 3 hrs.

              Maybe your yeast is just tired


              Bruce
              Sharpei Diem.....Seize the wrinkle dog

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              • #8
                Re: Proofing Issues

                Well, that eliminates one theory.

                How far back in the cabinet was the yeast when you found it?
                "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

                "Success isn't permanent and failure isn't fatal." -Mike Ditka
                [/CENTER]

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Proofing Issues

                  Bruce......the key is the 24 hr (or overnight) fridge time......As you stated, you increase to about the same amount of yeast 1 -1.5 tsp as I use if you are using it the same day.
                  The problem as I see it - The original 2 tsp recipe seems to be the one for same day use or directly after the proof. The current recipe lists the original instructions with the yeast cut down to 1/2 tsp - no mention of making it a day early and putting it in the fridge (which allows it to continue to rise at a much slower rate). This miss information or lack of instruction is leading to first time dough makers having problems. The dough instructions lead you to believe that after the 1 1/2 - 2 hr rise, you can punch it down, form it, and use it after a brief rest...I think we all have learned alot from our own experimentation and have found our own "sweet spot". I think it needs to be made clear that time and yeast amount can vary considerably; I know it is stated in many threads, but a lot of folks simply go straight to the recipes.
                  Do we need 2 sets of instructions or just clearly state that for "todays use" you will need "X" amount , for best taste use "Y" amount and store in the fridge overnight. (dough really does taste better the next day). Personally, I only make my dough a day in advance about 25% of the time...so that "tweaked" original recipe is what I mostly use, that is why I was shocked when I read this thread and then the vast difference in amounts, with the same instructions.

                  RT

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                  • #10
                    Re: Proofing Issues

                    Thanks for all of the thoughtful replies. What a great forum.

                    Anyway, I feel like an idiot. I finally just proofed the yeast with 112 degree water and there was neither foam nor bubbles. Nada. I usually bake enough bread to get through a jar quickly, but lately I've been so slammed at work that I lost track of time. Next time I'll mark the jar with the date when I open it. Or maybe I'll just stick to packets. I've learned one thing, though: if there's any doubt, proof the yeast first. I hate wasting good flour...

                    Thanks again.

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                    • #11
                      Re: Proofing Issues

                      Hey, every body goofs some time.

                      Most times you can salvage your dough.

                      Baking soda, baking powder and some buttermilk, and you can get some decent biscuits out of it. Even as is you can make homemade crackers. A dough is a terrible thing to waste...
                      "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

                      "Success isn't permanent and failure isn't fatal." -Mike Ditka
                      [/CENTER]

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Proofing Issues

                        I store my IDY in the freezer in an airtight container. It keeps virtually forever...well, as forever as I've needed so far!
                        Elizabeth

                        http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/f8/e...html#post41545

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                        • #13
                          Re: Proofing Issues

                          So I threw out all of my dead yeast and bought new. I stuck to the recipe as is, which specifies 1/2 teaspoon yeast for a full 500g of flour. With the new yeast I got a great first rise (finally!) after 90 minutes, so I divided the dough and put most of it into the fridge. I made one pizza two hours later using dough left out. It was pretty good, although the rise wasn't as much as I wanted.

                          Tonight (48 hours later) I took inventory of the dough balls in the fridge. I put one out on the counter to warm up while the oven came up to temp. After 10 minutes it blew the lid off the tupperware! I've never seen that before... The dough had a bubbble in it as well -- over-risen, apparently. Thirty minutes later I heard the same thing happen in the fridge! Weird... Anyway, the pizza was fantastic. Very easy to handle, and the crust came out as thin as I've ever seen. It was a pleasure to make (and eat!).

                          We live at 8,200 feet, so I usually cut back on yeast by about 20%. I didn't this time since 1/2 teaspoon seems like so little to begin with. I would like to hear other high-altitude perspectives, though. Maybe I need to let it rise only 24 hours?
                          Last edited by Marcos; 12-15-2008, 10:22 PM.

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                          • #14
                            Re: Proofing Issues

                            If it tasted good, maybe you should just put it in bigger containers?
                            "Building a Brick oven is the most fun anyone can have by themselves." (Terry Pratchett... slightly amended)

                            http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/f8/p...pics-2610.html
                            http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/f9/p...nues-2991.html

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                            • #15
                              Re: Proofing Issues

                              If you are going to cold proof a good rule of thumb is to cut the yeast in half. Some commercial pizzerias even use cold water and divide and refridgerate directly from the mixer. Now that you have good yeast you can start to use your own experience! When the pizza ball is a bit overproofed you can just re-round it and let it rest before shaping...
                              All the best!
                              Dutch
                              "Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity. " Charles Mingus
                              "Build at least two brick ovens...one to make all the mistakes on and the other to be just like you dreamed of!" Dutch

                              Comment

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