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Result of Pizza recipe changes? - Forno Bravo Forum: The Wood-Fired Oven Community

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Result of Pizza recipe changes?

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  • Result of Pizza recipe changes?

    Hello

    Could somebody summarize how pizza changes depending on:

    + Low T cooking vs High T cooking
    + More or less water
    + Baker yeast vs chemical yeast
    + More or less oil
    + Adding milk or egg. (Yes some people do it)

    Do you advice to bake the base first?
    Do you advice to put a container with water in the oven?

    thanks

  • #2
    Re: Result of Pizza recipe changes?

    hello

    Thank you very much for your thorough explanation.

    When I say chemical yeast I mean baking powder. I'm sorry I don't speak English very well.

    When I say "bake the base first" I didn't mean to bake it a long time before and keeping it somewhere.
    I mean baking it for 1 minute, extract it from the oven, immediately put the topping, and introduce it on the oven again.

    That way the base would be properly baked withouth any wet ingredient interfering or moisting the top of the base.
    I guess it won't be a problem if the base is very thin, but it's a common problem with some other thicker products (such as a Quiche Lorraine or a thick pizza).


    regards

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Result of Pizza recipe changes?

      Hello

      Thank you very much for your thorough explanation.

      When I say chemical yeast I mean baking powder. I'm sorry I don't speak English very well.

      When I say "bake the base first" I didn't mean to bake it a long time before and keeping it somewhere.
      I mean baking it for 1 minute, extract it from the oven, immediately put the topping, and introduce it on the oven again.

      That way the base would be properly baked withouth any wet ingredient interfering or moisting the top of the base.
      I guess it won't be a problem if the base is very thin, but it's a common problem with some other thicker products (such as a Quiche Lorraine or a thick pizza).


      regards

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Result of Pizza recipe changes?

        Hi

        And finally...
        What do you think about adding sugar, yolk or milk to the dough.
        many recipes advise to add some of these ingredients.

        What I don't like about yeast is that sometimes homemade pizzas taste of bread instead of pizza. Maybe is because I use too much yeast, but if use less the pizza can be to tough.

        I'll be thinking all this information and trying it.

        Regards

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Result of Pizza recipe changes?

          Skan, What is your pizza dream?

          If I have a chance to come to Valencia and have a local pizza, I can imagine toppings like Razor clams, Octopus, Prawns, not to forget Jamon Iberico, Jamon Serrano and all of the spectacular vegetables. Balancing these flavors with the pizza crust is the problem. I’d start with the Naples style crust, very thin and a minimum of any kind of sauce then add the above toppings after the baking the crust, but his is just my initial vision. By using a thin crust, the pizza crust is a canvas for the spectacular toppings, it becomes a supporting flavor and not the dominant flavor.


          Chris

          PS I almost forgot the Olives and Olive oil.
          Last edited by SCChris; 01-12-2012, 09:07 AM.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Result of Pizza recipe changes?

            I didn't imagine you would have a look at my profile, usually I even don't fill it.

            I like very much grilled prawns and raw oysters and smoked salmon. But I haven't found a really good seafood pizza yet.
            Many years ago I liked pizza with as much ingredients as possible but as I grew older I prefer fewer.

            If you ever cook pizza with ham I advise you not to put the ham on the oven,
            add it later instead, at least if you are using good ham.
            If you cook it turns into kinda dried bacon. I think it's a shame to pay a lot for ham if you cook it.
            You could also try cecina (or italian bresaola)
            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cecina_(meat)
            Bresaola - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
            maybe is not as good as ham if to eat alone but it has a stronger taste on the pizza.

            My likings are simple, a very thin the pizza with ham or cecina, cheese, rucola and some tomato.
            And other combinations with some vegetables but I can't decide now.
            Dried tomato (the one that comes in a jar with oil) is very nice as well.

            If you come to Valencia you shouldn't try a pizza but some paella (in the Albufera).

            Anyway, I'm not a pizza maker, just a pizza eater, and now I'm very hungry.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Result of Pizza recipe changes?

              I picked up from the thred that you were spanish and your location was Valencia.. :-) Last May I visited San Sebastian and Pamplona and I have seen Paella being made, on TV, and it looked spectacular..

              As for the Pizza, my tastes are also "less is more".. Better quality food and try not to screw it up.

              Are you trying to cook your pizza on a stone in your home oven?

              Chris


              PS. It's lunch time and I'm now famished..

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Result of Pizza recipe changes?

                I have stuck to the Cupito recipe and have been happy with it as a base. I intend to give my sourdough a try over the next few months and the central milling 00 flour as well.

                Chris

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Result of Pizza recipe changes?

                  Originally posted by SCChris View Post
                  Are you trying to cook your pizza on a stone in your home oven?
                  I have an old gas oven and I've decided to buy the stone when I have some time.
                  I'd prefer a wood-fired one but it doesn't fit in my flat


                  Originally posted by wotavidone
                  Any sugar, or malt syrup as some of the guys on the forum use, would presumably be consumed by the yeast.
                  .......
                  It'll just take longer if you use less.
                  I had read that sugar was added as nutrient for the yeast but also that it was added to get a browner pizza ¿¿if not consumed by the yeast??.

                  Yeast is alive and will grow generating more yeast but I don't know how fast is this process. Maybe yeast produces a lot of CO2 that blows the dough but it replicates itself only a little bit. ¿¿??

                  I like your explanations. I'm tired of books and webs that don't explain anything and just copy and paste recipes from elsewhere.

                  How much yeast to use depending on its kind (fresh, active, dry, compressed, instant....) ?

                  00 flour is commonly used to prepare pizza but doesn't it have a too low protein content?

                  And, what about semolina?, Don't you use it?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Result of Pizza recipe changes?

                    The amount of yeast used relates to how soon you need to use the dough. The more live yeast the sooner the dough can be used but if you use less yeast and allow more time, then other "good" things happen to the flavor of the dough. I allow at least one night of cold rest for the dough. The reason is that enzymes are working to break down the carbohydrates into sugars and other flavor components that won't be perceptible without time. The current thought is that the dough can rest for about 4 days before it becomes too consumed by these enzymes to taste as good as it could. The refrigeration slows the yeast down so they don't consume the sugars in the dough too soon. When I bake bread I often use half of the recommended amount of yeast because I allow the yeast more time to multiply then given in the recipe. In short less yeast and more time give you better flavor. I also use instant yeast because more live yeast is present in this than our standard dry yeast.

                    Italian 00 flour is lower protein than what we in the USA call Bread Flour but higher than pastry flour. The 00 lower content still allows enough gluten to be created to allow the CO2 from the yeast to create a bread like structure rather than a cake like or cracker structure. Some breads are made with Semolina Flour, but I don't have any experience with is so I can't comment.

                    I can comment on your stone choice for the oven. I have tried and used both Granite and Soapstone and don't see much difference in my home oven but I'm limited to my oven's maximum temperature of 550F / 290C. Both of these work great on pizza and bread and have the added benifit of holding temperatures very even in the oven.


                    Chris

                    I use 65% hydration in my dough.
                    Last edited by SCChris; 01-12-2012, 07:09 PM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Result of Pizza recipe changes?

                      Wotavidone, some around here use 80% and once you have a feel for shaping the dough you should find that a bit more water allows you to get the pizza dough thiner easier. As for sticking I use rice flour on the peel and on the dough out of the container holding the dough ball. I use no oil, just 00 flour, yeast, salt and good filtered water. The common logic is that Cupito 00 is better at high temps than other flours and if I was only cooking at 550F in my kitchen oven I'd try quality all porpose flour and see where the flavor and texture are.

                      1kg 00 flour
                      7g instant yeast
                      18g sea salt
                      650g spring water or filtered water
                      Mix to combine and rest for 30 minutes.
                      Strech and fold every 10 minutes (4 times total) cover and place the dough in the fridge for 1 to 3 days. Divide the dough into about 210g balls rest the balls and use or pack them in plastic containers and rest in the fridge. remove the dough balls 1 hour before use.


                      Chris

                      PS I don't use a mixer because I don't see any advantage in doing so with the above method.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Result of Pizza recipe changes?

                        I continue reading about pizzas and bread-making and I have more questions I hope you don't mind.

                        Nobody has mentioned dough autolysis (it's common for baker's to mix the flour and the water and allow it to rest for 20 minutes before adding the yeast).
                        I've also read that is better to add the salt after the yeast has acted, but it's not good to knead it if it has already blown the dough, because it can go down. Then, when should I add the salt?

                        Do you prefer electric ovens or gas ovens? (This is related with my post about humidity).

                        Pizzas are better if they are made in a very hot oven. But lately I've heard that is not very healthy to cook at very high temperatures. What do you think?

                        Is there any common device or trick to reduce the smoke produced by wood fired ovens?
                        Perhaps just reflowing it through water?. Or this would extingish the fire?
                        I say that because of the incresaing environmental regulation.
                        It could be a nice extra for your ovens.


                        Regards
                        Last edited by skan; 01-13-2012, 04:08 PM.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Result of Pizza recipe changes?

                          I'm adding a couple of links to some experiments done regarding Autolyse, a good read and very thought provoking. The following was mined at "thefreshloaf.com"
                          ===========

                          Experiments with Autolyse (Autolysis) # 1 - Discovering Sourdough (post #1 dated October 26, 2011)

                          and

                          Experiments with Autolyse # 2 - Discovering Sourdough (post #2 dated November 3, 2011)

                          Definitely worth the read! Thanks Teresa. We owe you.
                          ==============
                          Teresa's results seem to indicate that for her breads a 2 to 3 hour autolyse is valuable and that including the levain in the begining is better. Adding salt is better after autolyse and more than 3 or so hours of autolyse isn't helpful. I'm doing a bit of a reach here, but for flour with less protien, like 00 compaired to bread flour, less autolyse is better.

                          I autolyse my pizza dough about 30 minutes. I add the salt directly into the pizza dough at the begining, but may hold off on this in the future. I have moved to adding the salt into my bread dough after autolyse.

                          I don't think for pizza that gas or electric is better as long as you have a hot oven and a stone. I also don't think that as often as most of us eat pizza and could eat pizza that the high temps are unhealthy, the fat of bad commercial american pizza is what will kill you.

                          Smoke is most often related to just starting the fire in the oven and wood that isn't fully dry. The smoking is light and does not last throughout the fireing of the oven and it's much less than an open fire.

                          Please check out "The fresh loaf" you'll find a wealth of bread bakers over there.

                          Chris

                          Further information on Autolyse is avalable in the hearthbread forum.
                          Last edited by SCChris; 01-15-2012, 11:42 AM. Reason: Providing further info

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                          • #14
                            Re: Result of Pizza recipe changes?

                            I'll read it.
                            I find interesting this one:
                            Jeff Varasano's NY Pizza Recipe
                            I didn't know if I shouldn't write links to other pages.
                            I've also read some in Spanish.

                            I'm gona try two pizzas, one with flour 00 and one with high gluten flour+semolina.


                            Oh!, I've found a picture of the kind of pizza I don't like
                            How do they get this?. The recipe is also the pizza one. Too much yeast?
                            Last edited by skan; 01-13-2012, 04:54 PM.

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                            • #15
                              Re: Result of Pizza recipe changes?

                              Your photo looks more like foccacia rather than pizza in my opinion.

                              Chris

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