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Mortaring - Forno Bravo Forum: The Wood-Fired Oven Community

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Dome Installation Video - Casa / Premio / Modena

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For many of you who bought a modular oven, you may have asked how we put the domes together when we build them. For those of you considering one of our ovens, we shot a video to make your install easier.

Check it out on our You Tube Channel.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7q7...jSniYogfUra06Q

If the link doesn't work, simply go to You Tube and type Forno Bravo Channel. The video title is How to Set your Forno Bravo Oven Dome Pieces.

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Mortaring

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  • Mortaring

    Should I mortar the first chain to the firebrick floor of the oven.

  • #2
    Re: Mortaring

    I am not an expert in oven building, so also consider other suggestions. In my opinion you have to mortar it down since you need an air tight seal around the paremetar of the 1st chain.

    I also have a question: How much mortar do you apply for the flooring?
    How much joint space should be left on flooring (if any)? And the same question when doing the chain?
    Thanks

    Originally posted by TCPizza View Post
    Should I mortar the first chain to the firebrick floor of the oven.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Mortaring

      No, you don't need to mortar the chain to the floor. You don't need an airtight seal and the weight of the dome will hold the brick in place. You do need to mortar the bricks together on the sides. Shoot for a 1/8" joint spacing - but know that the gap will be wide at the back unless you are tapering your bricks.

      Floor bricks should be pushed together as tightly as possible and do NOT use any mortar!!! Set them in sand/fireclay mix as per the instructions.
      My build progress
      My WFO Journal on Facebook
      My dome spreadsheet calculator

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Mortaring

        Originally posted by TCPizza View Post
        Should I mortar the first chain to the firebrick floor of the oven.
        No need, it will break bond within the first couple firings.
        Old World Stone & Garden

        Current WFO build - Dry Stone Base & Gothic Vault

        When we build, let us think that we build for ever.
        John Ruskin

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Mortaring

          ditto stonecutter and DJ-sides only.
          texman
          My Progress:
          http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/f8/t...ild-17324.html

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Mortaring

            Originally posted by Toneer View Post
            I am not an expert in oven building, so also consider other suggestions. In my opinion you have to mortar it down since you need an air tight seal around the paremetar of the 1st chain.

            I also have a question: How much mortar do you apply for the flooring?
            How much joint space should be left on flooring (if any)? And the same question when doing the chain?
            Thanks
            If oven dome is placed on the floor it should just set on the floor.

            If floor is cut so as to fit inside the oven dome ther should be a 1/8 - 3/16 gap created by wrapping the floor in a layer of corregated card board to allow the floor to expand and not crack the dome. The void. Left by the cardboard will burn out and fill with ash. Tape over the cardboard with masking or duct tape to prevent mortar from falling into the gap
            Chip

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Mortaring

              Originally posted by mrchipster View Post
              If oven dome is placed on the floor it should just set on the floor.

              If floor is cut so as to fit inside the oven dome ther should be a 1/8 - 3/16 gap created by wrapping the floor in a layer of corregated card board to allow the floor to expand and not crack the dome. The void. Left by the cardboard will burn out and fill with ash. Tape over the cardboard with masking or duct tape to prevent mortar from falling into the gap
              Now I know why the dome is not mortared to the floor. It needs to freely expand and contract.
              What exactly should I lay the floor on? I know it's some kind of sand mixture, will I be able to buy it from a local home depot or building supplier?
              Also I have heard that broken glass is a good heat insulation, is this true?
              If yes, can I cover the dome and the base foundation with broken glass for heat insulation?
              Thank you!

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Mortaring

                Originally posted by Toneer View Post
                Now I know why the dome is not mortared to the floor. It needs to freely expand and contract.
                What exactly should I lay the floor on? I know it's some kind of sand mixture, will I be able to buy it from a local home depot or building supplier?
                Also I have heard that broken glass is a good heat insulation, is this true?
                If yes, can I cover the dome and the base foundation with broken glass for heat insulation?
                Thank you!
                SAND IS NOT AN INSULATOR!!!!!!!! and broken glass is almost as bad.

                The best product for insulating under the floor is CalSil board or ceramic board.

                Many people use a mixture of Portland cement and either vermiculite or perlite.
                This is not as good an insulator as ceramic board but will be far superior to glass or sand.

                There is also a product called Foamglas that works very well also.

                Please do further reading on this site before starting your oven you will be happy you did.

                If you decide to use perlite or vermiculite with Portland cement you will want a 5-1 or 7-1 ratio of vermiculite to cement. Make note I said cement NOT concrete or sand mix.

                The tandoor oven is something I am unfamiliar with and my comments relate directly to pompellii or dome ovens and my not be advised for a tandoor oven.
                Last edited by mrchipster; 08-17-2013, 03:23 PM. Reason: Updated comments base on type of oven.
                Chip

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Mortaring

                  Originally posted by Toneer View Post
                  Now I know why the dome is not mortared to the floor. It needs to freely expand and contract.
                  What exactly should I lay the floor on?
                  You can use a mixture of fireclay/sand or even a very thin layer of sand.

                  I know it's some kind of sand mixture, will I be able to buy it from a local home depot or building supplier?
                  Masonry supply yard will have fireclay or if you have a wetsaw, cut your brick for the dome and then use the slurry that settles in the tray

                  Also I have heard that broken glass is a good heat insulation, is this true? No...glass bottles are marginal, but they need to be encapsulated in a non combustible material, like clay. More efficient insulation would be vermiculite or perlite mixed with portland, ceramic fiber or mineral wool board insulation.

                  If yes, can I cover the dome and the base foundation with broken glass for heat insulation?
                  See above

                  Thank you!
                  Hope that helps.

                  EDIT: I was typing as the above was posted. Redundant but true (my post).
                  Last edited by stonecutter; 08-17-2013, 11:20 AM.
                  Old World Stone & Garden

                  Current WFO build - Dry Stone Base & Gothic Vault

                  When we build, let us think that we build for ever.
                  John Ruskin

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Mortaring

                    It helped a lot.. Thank you very much!
                    I am planning to build an Armenian underground oven (tonir). There is a youtube video link below, which will give you and idea. And to build it I will use Italian pizza oven technology. The oven by shape is 35-47" tall wine barrel with 24" diameter (opening).

                    Is there a specific type of sand I would want to use for the flooring?
                    What do you think what kind of insulation should I use for the oven, that's both effective and cost efficient?
                    Thanks again!

                    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qkfcO_Pz0cY
                    Originally posted by stonecutter View Post
                    Hope that helps.

                    EDIT: I was typing as the above was posted. Redundant but true (my post).

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Mortaring

                      So it is a Tandor oven that you wish to built with brick?

                      If it was me, I would use splits and rip them into pieces like 2"x2"...the Tandor (Tonir) is going to have a much,much tighter radius than the dome or barrel vault. The smaller shapes will help you maintain a neat radius.

                      The 2"x2" is just a guess, but the smaller the Tandor ( or oven for that matter ) the harder it is to keep a nice radius with larger units.

                      You can use bagged play sand or mason sand...you are only using a thin layer above the insulation remember.
                      Old World Stone & Garden

                      Current WFO build - Dry Stone Base & Gothic Vault

                      When we build, let us think that we build for ever.
                      John Ruskin

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Mortaring

                        Also, if your oven is to placed underground, you now have to contend with moisture problems in your insulation.

                        Make sure you use a water proof membrane or heavy plastic between your insulation and the surrounding ground.
                        Old World Stone & Garden

                        Current WFO build - Dry Stone Base & Gothic Vault

                        When we build, let us think that we build for ever.
                        John Ruskin

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Mortaring

                          I am not sure that you can use firebrick for a tandoor/tonir. They are normally made of terra cotta which has different thermal properties.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Mortaring

                            Some history of tonir:
                            Tandoor is Indian version of tonir. The first Tonir type underground ovens were discovered in Armenia that dates back to 3000BC. The oldest winery and shoe was also discovered in Armenia. Scientists discover 'oldest' winery in Armenian cave - CNN.com

                            Armenian traditional tonirs by size and shape are very close to the size I already mentioned (24" diameter, 35"-47" height or taller and the shape is of a wine barrel). Originally it is a large fireproof pot that is insulated and buried underground. Since it's very difficult to find a quality pot, some masters build it from firebrick.


                            Originally posted by stonecutter View Post
                            So it is a Tandor oven that you wish to built with brick?
                            Yes, that is correct (tonir oven)
                            If it was me, I would use splits and rip them into pieces like 2"x2"...the Tandor (Tonir) is going to have a much,much tighter radius than the dome or barrel vault. The smaller shapes will help you maintain a neat radius.

                            The 2"x2" is just a guess, but the smaller the Tandor ( or oven for that matter ) the harder it is to keep a nice radius with larger units.
                            I was thinking about 2x2 too. Do you think medium duty firebrick (9x4.5x2.5) is good choice for this project? do you think cutting the bricks with brishblaster (chisel) is a good idea?

                            You can use bagged play sand or mason sand...you are only using a thin layer above the insulation remember.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Mortaring

                              I am going to compact the soil and lay the heavy plastic then gravel, sand and on top of that concrete foundation (base), I will do the same with the sounding walls. And build my tonir in that box and fill the sides (in-between tonir and the box) with some type of ceramic fiber insulation.
                              What do you think, is it a legit plan?
                              Originally posted by stonecutter View Post
                              Also, if your oven is to placed underground, you now have to contend with moisture problems in your insulation.

                              Make sure you use a water proof membrane or heavy plastic between your insulation and the surrounding ground.

                              Comment

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