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Starting my foundation questions? - Forno Bravo Forum: The Wood-Fired Oven Community

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Starting my foundation questions?

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  • Starting my foundation questions?

    Hi,

    I'm getting ready to start pouring a 16ft x 16ft concrete slab that is going to be the floor/foundation for a 13ft x 13ft redwood arbor. I'm basically building a four post redwood arbor that will have open sides and that will act as an outdoor room for entertaining.

    I thought this would be the perfect time to construct the form and pour my foundation for the Pompeii brick oven since I have to make the form for the arbor floor and I'm having a truck come and pour the concrete. Knock it all out in one shot.

    Here's a few questions I have.

    I was hoping to create another form off of one of the sides of the 16' x 16' form for the arbor floor. I have limited space on both sides of the arbor slab and wanted my brick oven foundation to tie directly into the side of my arbor foundation. Hope this makes sense. Basically the foundation for the brick oven would tie into the arbor slab and come out off of one side. Anyone see any problems with this?

    I'm thinking of going with the 42' Pompeii design and it says the foundation should be 77' x 86'. I would assume this means 77' in width x 86' in length? Is that correct?

    Is the 42' size brick oven perfect for most needs? Anyone know how many pies can fit in there at once? What's the opening size on the 42' oven?

    So if this works out like I'm hoping when I'm prepping my pizza's I'm under my arbor where I have a mini kitchen set up and then I'm only a few feet from where the actual brick oven is to back them. I want it set up so when people are sitting under the arbor they can actually see the fire burning inside the oven or at least feel like they are part of the process.

    The 16' x 16' slab is going to be raised about six inches from the ground to create a contrast from the rest of the patio so the foundation for the brick oven would also be at that level. Doesn't matter if my brick oven foundation is raised, does it?

    Is it o.k. to pour a four inch foundation for the brick oven because that's what the thickness of the arbor slab is going to be. I was hoping to not have to pour two different thicknesses of concrete.

    That's enough questions for now? Sorry for being long but want to get off to a good start. Thx. Franco

  • #2
    Re: Starting my foundation questions?

    Originally posted by Italfranco1 View Post
    .

    I was hoping to create another form off of one of the sides of the 16' x 16' form for the arbor floor. I have limited space on both sides of the arbor slab and wanted my brick oven foundation to tie directly into the side of my arbor foundation. Hope this makes sense. Basically the foundation for the brick oven would tie into the arbor slab and come out off of one side. Anyone see any problems with this?
    I don't see any problems with that

    Originally posted by Italfranco1 View Post
    .I'm thinking of going with the 42' Pompeii design and it says the foundation should be 77' x 86'. I would assume this means 77' in width x 86' in length? Is that correct?
    You have a lot of wiggle room here. The size required depends on your enclosure, an igloo's footprint will be smaller than the framed "houses" you see (generally)

    Originally posted by Italfranco1 View Post
    .Is the 42' size brick oven perfect for most needs? Anyone know how many pies can fit in there at once? What's the opening size on the 42' oven?
    I am building a 42 inch and it seems to me it will probably fit more than you can cook at a time



    Originally posted by Italfranco1 View Post
    .The 16' x 16' slab is going to be raised about six inches from the ground to create a contrast from the rest of the patio so the foundation for the brick oven would also be at that level. Doesn't matter if my brick oven foundation is raised, does it?
    No - the concern here is to have the cooking floor at a comfortable height.

    Originally posted by Italfranco1 View Post
    .Is it o.k. to pour a four inch foundation for the brick oven because that's what the thickness of the arbor slab is going to be. I was hoping to not have to pour two different thicknesses of concrete.
    I would think that's fine considering where you live - definitely add some steel.

    Hope this help and I'm sure others will add

    Les...
    Check out my pictures here:
    http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/f8/les-build-4207.html

    If at first you don't succeed... Skydiving isn't for you.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Starting my foundation questions?

      Thanks for the reply. So what your saying is the actual size of the block foundation for a Pompeii 42' that sits on top of the 77' x 86' slab is considerably smaller than the size of the slab. And that the slab is oversized to accomodate the style of enlosure such as a house style that will take up some of that slab? Is that correct?

      Do you know off hand what the minimum size slab I could get away with for building a Pompeii 42' would be? I know I have room for a good size slab, just not sure if I have enough room for a 77' x 86' slab. Thanks, Franco

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Starting my foundation questions?

        Hi, and welcome!

        Originally posted by Italfranco1 View Post
        I would assume this means 77' in width x 86' in length? Is that correct?
        Yes. I attached the foundation plans I drew up and used. Very close to the dimensions you gave. I added some length because my oven won't be connected to our patio. The dimensions worked out perfectly for my 42". You can look at the pics in my Picasa Album (linked in my signature below).

        Is the 42' size brick oven perfect for most needs? Anyone know how many pies can fit in there at once? What's the opening size on the 42' oven?
        Most everyone here agrees that bigger is better... and 42" is plenty BIG. You'll be surprised at how roomy it is when it's done. 42" oven is perfect for a small family or a BIG party.

        I want it set up so when people are sitting under the arbor they can actually see the fire burning inside the oven or at least feel like they are part of the process.
        You and I are planning a nearly identical space. My arbor construction begins this summer .


        Doesn't matter if my brick oven foundation is raised, does it?
        That will look cool!

        I was hoping to not have to pour two different thicknesses of concrete.
        I'm going to vote for a 6" foundation under the oven. You can do the two thicknesses in one pour, just set up the forms for it. Your concrete guys have done it before (or we'll help you figure it out if you are doing the forms yourself).

        Good luck, and be sure to start posting pictures when you break ground!
        Attached Files
        Ken H. - Kentucky
        42" Pompeii

        Pompeii Oven Construction Video Updated!

        Oven Thread ... Enclosure Thread
        Cost Spreadsheet ... Picasa Web Album

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Starting my foundation questions?

          Originally posted by Italfranco1 View Post
          Do you know off hand what the minimum size slab I could get away with for building a Pompeii 42' would be? I know I have room for a good size slab, just not sure if I have enough room for a 77' x 86' slab.
          Franco,

          I have about 4" of slab hanging out under the edges of my block stand. Just enough to do stucco, brick, or stone and still look good.
          Ken H. - Kentucky
          42" Pompeii

          Pompeii Oven Construction Video Updated!

          Oven Thread ... Enclosure Thread
          Cost Spreadsheet ... Picasa Web Album

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Starting my foundation questions?

            Thanks Ken,

            Glad to hear that for the most part I'm on track with choosing the Pompeii 42' brick oven. I just did some quick measuring outside and I'll have no problem with the 77' x 86' foundation. I'm totally a bigger is better type guy so I'm happy I'm going with the 42' plans.

            If your recommending that my brick oven slab be six inches thick I think what I'll have to do is dig that area out a little more. My end goal is to have the arbor slab tie into the brick oven slab and both be level. Don't want one higher than the other. Seems to me that if my arbor slab is going to be 4' thick and the brick oven slab is going to be 6' thick I'll have to dig the brick oven foundation deeper 2' deeper if I want them both level.

            I don't get any frost where I am in California. Any chance I could get by with a four inch thick slab for the brick oven or do you see major problems?

            My wife doesn't know the slab that's coming off of the arbor slab is for a brick oven. She thinks it's where I'm going to put the bbq. Well, it is in a way. She'll be happy in fall when I'm making her a brick oven pizza.

            Ciao, Franco

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Starting my foundation questions?

              Originally posted by Italfranco1 View Post
              Seems to me that if my arbor slab is going to be 4' thick and the brick oven slab is going to be 6' thick I'll have to dig the brick oven foundation deeper 2' deeper if I want them both level.
              Exactly.

              I don't get any frost where I am in California. Any chance I could get by with a four inch thick slab for the brick oven or do you see major problems?
              My personal opinion: These ovens weigh close to 5000 lbs. I think that the extra 2" is pretty cheap insurance. Digging out an extra 2" on your foundation is easy. The cost of the extra 2" concrete is negligible considering the cost of the whole project.

              We have some guys on the forum who are much more educated about concrete than I... I'm sure they'll join the discussion!
              Ken H. - Kentucky
              42" Pompeii

              Pompeii Oven Construction Video Updated!

              Oven Thread ... Enclosure Thread
              Cost Spreadsheet ... Picasa Web Album

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Starting my foundation questions?

                That makes sense to me. I had no idea of the weight of a brick oven.

                I'll just dig two inches deeper in the area where the brick oven foundation is going so the slab for the brick oven and slab for the arbor will be level.

                I'll have a custom home builder working with me on this project and he's poured many a foundation so I think I'm in good hands.

                But you'll see alot of me on this site as I get closer to starting the brick oven. It makes sense to knock out the slab now while I'm building the forms to pour the slab for the arbor. Once the arbor project is complete and my stone patios I can come back to the oven project and the slab will already be in place. Thx. Franco

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Starting my foundation questions?

                  Welcome aboard!

                  As to the foundation an option would be have the outside 12" deeper to allow for the pour there to be 6", that's where the cement blocks for the stand will be as well as the weight. But doing it all 6" will only add another yard of cement, about $75 here for me.

                  I've made a 42" and it sits on a stand that's 5 cement blocks long by 4.5 blocks wide. the blocks are nominal 8x8x16 but basically about 15.5' long. Add 4" on each edge for exterior. Remember the hearth will be the same dimension as the stand (unless you do a cantilever front curve as Ken and I've done) and you will be standing on it for a month as you install the dome. Don't make it smaller than you have to.

                  Have fun
                  RCLake

                  "It's time to go Vertical"
                  Oven Thread

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Starting my foundation questions?

                    Thanks for all the advice. I'm going to do exactly what the Pompeii 42' specs call for. I'm going to pour a concrete foundation that's 77' x 86'. That's what I have room for so that's what I'll go with.

                    I'm also going to pour it 6' thick to be on the safe side.

                    I love the dome look that shows the exposed brick work. Is it mandatory for it to be insulated in order to achieve the proper heat or can it be left at the stage where the dome bricks are showing.

                    Also, do I need permits or a fire inspector to come out to o.k. the space since it's my backyard I can go ahead and build this. I'm hoping I don't have to get permits because my only fear would be being told that the space is a little tight. Any thoughts? Thx.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Starting my foundation questions?

                      Insulation is a must. If you want a brick dome look, you can build one out of terra cotta tile on the outside of the insulation. Besides, the exterior of the dome has huge gaps between the bricks, and doesn't look like much anyway.

                      Building inspectors consider freestanding brick ovens to be backyard barbeques, and allow them without inspection in most cases. You should pay attention to common sense precautions: The top of your chimney should be two feet above any structure within ten feet.
                      My geodesic oven project: part 1, part 2

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Starting my foundation questions?

                        Got it. Thanks for the advice and I'll make sure that I have plenty of clearence from surrounding trees, etc.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Starting my foundation questions?

                          I dug up a pic of a brick-like covering over the insulation, this by Arevalo (luis)



                          A tile-covered igloo looks better than a stucco one in my book, but it's a bunch more work.
                          My geodesic oven project: part 1, part 2

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Starting my foundation questions?

                            Italfranco1,

                            People seem to be split on checking on a permit. I did to be on the safe side but didn't want to know the answer. Luckily the building inspector considers this an "outdoor BBQ" so no need for a permit. I checked zoning as well and it's not even listed so I "technically" could put it in my front yard. The one thing you should "consider" is the chimney stack in relation to your house nearby buildings. I think it's 2 feet taller than any structure within 10 feet. Mine is about 12 feet away from my house but my chimney needs to go 2 feet higher than my pergola.

                            Re the Foundation - I agree the thicker the better. 2" is cheap insurance. Hey at least you didn't have to dig down 30+ inched due to the frost line like I and your northern builders did.

                            Good luck.
                            Dick

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Starting my foundation questions?

                              I concur as well. Just a big O shape under the area of your concrete blocks should be sufficient. Plenty of rebar too.
                              GJBingham
                              -----------------------------------
                              Everyone makes mistakes. The trick is to make mistakes when nobody is looking.

                              -

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