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40" Indoor Pompeii in NNY

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  • 40" Indoor Pompeii in NNY

    Hmm well time flies.. I joined early 2009 and finally started building last October. oh so many projects and never enough time. I tend to also be a perfectionist so am not known for my rapidity in completing things..

    We redid the kitchen and planned all along to have a WFO in the corner. There is a 21' tall block chimney outside to vent the oven. I finally had the chimney lined with insulated SS and the through wall thimble installed so all set for connection when the time comes.

    In the floor there is a steel I beam spanning the center of the room and under the area where the oven is going in the corner, there are 3 - 2"x8" tall laminated beams spanning between the I beam and the concrete block outside wall.

    About time I started a build thread and posted some photos!

    Here is the location. I had to put some leveler down over the plywood floor.

    Tony
    Attached Files
    Tony

    Link to my oven build thread:
    40 inch indoor pompeii in NNY

  • #2
    Re: 40" Indoor Pompeii in NNY

    For the oven base I built an oak frame with 1.5" 1/8" steel angle iron reinforcing across the top. A few shots of the oak framework. The corner is a bit skewed as one side across the back left is longer than the right.

    Tony
    Attached Files
    Tony

    Link to my oven build thread:
    40 inch indoor pompeii in NNY

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: 40" Indoor Pompeii in NNY

      This is crazy ambitious....I like it. I will be waiting for more pics. good luck.
      Darin

      I often cook with wine, sometimes I even add it to the food...
      WC Fields


      Link to my build

      http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/f8/4...-ca-20497.html

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: 40" Indoor Pompeii in NNY

        Originally posted by Tonyp View Post
        For the oven base I built an oak frame with 1.5" 1/8" steel angle iron reinforcing across the top. A few shots of the oak framework. The corner is a bit skewed as one side across the back left is longer than the right.

        Tony
        It is always a bit hard to tell from photos, but at first look I'd be thinking that you are asking a lot from that timber frame to support a heavy 4" concrete supporting slab, as well as a heavy masonry oven sitting on top of it.
        Have you calculated how much weight needs to be supported?
        Have you got someone with building knowledge look it over?
        What size oven are you planning to build?
        Kindled with zeal and fired with passion.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: 40" Indoor Pompeii in NNY

          Thanks for the comments!

          David - I appreciate your concern. I have calculated the following and am confident it will hold. There is more to add to the frame yet to strengthen it. What you see in the photo is just the framing. The oak is 1x4 (which is really 3/4 x 3.5"). It's only 18" tall between the bottom and the top horizontal pieces. The upright pieces are spaced about 18" apart. I am using half bricks for the dome so 4.5" thick and 40" interior diameter. That spreads the dome weight over approximately 118" of length. The dome will be fairly close to the edge of the frame so the center will be supporting primarily the floor. I weighed a few of the half bricks and they are approximately 3.75 lbs each. The lower courses are 28 bricks if you include the arch bricks at each end. I have 3 courses laid horizontally and plan on one more with the tops tapered inward to start the dome enclosing. That will give me a vertical wall about 4.25" above the top of the floor before the dome starts to lean inward. The first 4 courses at 28 bricks each and 3.75 lbs works out to 112 bricks and 420 lbs. Not sure what it will take to finish the dome but is it safe to estimate 250-300 total? If we use the 300 count then that would be 1125 lbs plus the mortar etc so maybe 100 lbs there. Plus the ceramic insulation, floor bricks etc... figure maybe 2000 lbs spread over 118" is roughly 17 lbs/inch. Below are some more photos showing the 3/4" plywood floor and the 3/4" plywood sandwiched between the lower and upper oak horizontal frame pieces and secured to the vertical uprights. These will add a lot of strength between the vertical pieces to support the weight horizontally.

          Regarding the support across the top. I am using a steel frame with a plywood sheet over it. The ceramic board will lay on top of that. Photo below you can see the 3/4 ply installed and the start of the steel frame.

          Tony
          Attached Files
          Tony

          Link to my oven build thread:
          40 inch indoor pompeii in NNY

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: 40" Indoor Pompeii in NNY

            I would like to add my concerns also, along with David's. That is, even after your explaination. Sorry, I am in to building standards that will out last me .

            just sayin'
            I don't care what folks say behind my back........They are either braggin' or.......lyin'


            My Build
            My Picasa Web Album

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            • #7
              Re: 40" Indoor Pompeii in NNY

              More photos of the steel frame (1.5" x 1/8" angle iron). On the underside of the frame is 1/2" ply to make the inside of the cabinet finished looking. I also have a pull out wood storage drawer installed. The drawer is 40" long and 18" wide (exterior dimensions) made with the 3/4" ply. There are some cross supports under the floor of the drawer to help support the plywood from sagging from the weight of the wood. The drawer is secured to those full extension 500 lb drawer slides.

              Tony
              Attached Files
              Tony

              Link to my oven build thread:
              40 inch indoor pompeii in NNY

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: 40" Indoor Pompeii in NNY

                No worries Gulf! The compression strength of kiln dried red oak parallel to the grain is about 7000 lb/sq in. This gives a compression strength perpendicular to the grain of around 1200 lb/sq in, which is well above my estimated 17 lbs/in of downward force the dome, floor insulation etc. will be exerting on the horizontal oak members. I have no concerns of finding it collapsed one day.

                Tony
                Tony

                Link to my oven build thread:
                40 inch indoor pompeii in NNY

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: 40" Indoor Pompeii in NNY

                  Tony,
                  You are probably golden. I am used to all masonry construction. I like the drawer. Though, I am still waiting for someone with a corner build to incorporate a "lazy susan" to take full advantage of all that room under there .

                  Joe
                  Last edited by Gulf; 05-25-2014, 05:06 PM.
                  I don't care what folks say behind my back........They are either braggin' or.......lyin'


                  My Build
                  My Picasa Web Album

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: 40" Indoor Pompeii in NNY

                    Originally posted by Gulf View Post
                    Tony,
                    You are probably golden. I am used to all masonry construction. I like the drawer. Though, I am still waiting for someone with a corner build to incorporate a "lazy susan" to take full advantage of all that room under there .

                    Joe
                    That sounds like a challenge to those designing their ovens. And a worthy challenge at that!
                    Cheers ......... Steve

                    Build Thread http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/f3/n...erg-19151.html

                    Build Pics http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?s...1&l=1626b3f4f4

                    Forno Food Pics https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?...1&l=1d5ce2a275

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                    • #11
                      Re: 40" Indoor Pompeii in NNY

                      Building a large masonry oven over a plywood floor is rather unusual. Most builds start with 4" reinforced concrete. Obviously you've done your calculations so I wish you well. For my ovens, if I use a steel stand it is made from 50 mm x 50 x 4mm steel angle, substantially more than yours, with a span of only 670 mm which supports an oven supporting slab of 910 mm x 910 mm and my oven weighs only 250 Kg. The first steel stand I built was made from lighter weight steel square box section 20 mm x20 mm x 1.6 mm of the same dimensions and I felt it required stronger material as there was too much flexing.
                      Last edited by david s; 05-26-2014, 08:08 AM.
                      Kindled with zeal and fired with passion.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: 40" Indoor Pompeii in NNY

                        I have the same concern as David. Your vertical compression strength is fine (13- .75x3.5" boards= ~50000lbs static compressive load capacity). The trouble is transferring the load onto those members. If you can create an anchor for the rebar in your wood structure somehow, I think you'll be fine. I'd also go a bit overkill on the rebar, as well, and maybe go up to 5" slab.

                        I don't know what all you have planned to finish the oven out, but just the dome is going to be in the 2500lb range and your hearth is probably close to that as well.
                        Time flies like an arrow; Fruit Flies like a banana.

                        My oven (thus far): http://www.tinyurl.com/ogorirsoven

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: 40" Indoor Pompeii in NNY

                          Oh Gosh... I have been keeping up with all the various builds from others as well as the many interesting topics on what folks are cooking. I am still working on the oven! No it hasn't collapsed the frame or fallen through the floor into the garage.

                          There is a sheet of 3/4" plywood over the top of the steel frame. On top of that I put down a 3" thick sheet of cal/sil board and then a sheet of 2" thick board for 5" total thickness. 40" diameter dome with bricks cut in half for 4.5" thick walls. I am really pushing it as big as possible in my corner so I had to cut into the drywall and trim some studs to give 3" clearance to the outside of the dome for insulation. The trimmed studs were reinforced with steel angle iron. The 40" diameter also doesn't give me much room for a landing/entrance so the dome arch is slightly compressed into the front of the oven by about 2"...

                          I could have made it smaller but I figured if I was going to put all this effort into the project I was going to make it as big as I could in the space given! I do plan to use the oven frequently and for many different tasks besides pizza. Few photos of what's going on with my off the wall build..

                          First ring of dome bricks (floor will be completely inside the dome so if I should ever need to fix the floor they are removable.)

                          Working on the 3rd ring which once completed is high enough to start the floor.
                          Attached Files
                          Tony

                          Link to my oven build thread:
                          40 inch indoor pompeii in NNY

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: 40" Indoor Pompeii in NNY

                            ok floor time! I should preface this with the following: I have been using a 1/2" thick stone in the oven for quite some time. We have a commercial range so I can get it up to about 550f. However it still drives me nuts when you can see the crispiness of the bottom crust fall off a cliff even after 3 or 4 pizzas or flat breads! I want a floor that will hold heat and lots of it! So I am going against the grain here from what it seems most people use for floor thickness and making it 5" thick. I realize it will take a while to heat properly but that's ok. I will have a couple remote probe dial thermometers from Omega in the center floor brick. One will be at the bottom next to the insulation layer and the other will be 1/2" from the inside floor surface. I also plan on the same setup with 2 more thermometers about halfway up the side of the dome. I decided to use the herringbone pattern to minimize seams that might catch a a peel or tool..

                            Funny though as I am cutting bricks for the floor and quickly realized that brick sizes can actually vary quite considerably! Proceeded in short order by a whole lot of grumbling as the bricks would not line up nicely unless the long sides were 2X the small side, and why couldn't the brick maker at least make bricks to a consistent size and thickness!!! My only recourse was to trim them to the proper sizes! 4.5" x 2.25"...

                            By the way if you have ever tried to trim 1/16" off the face of a brick with the wet saw you might discover that the blade wants to deflect off. Did you know you can put two blades onto the HF 10" wet saw?

                            Anyway.. back to the floor. In order to get the thickness I wanted it seemed logical to cut the 9" brick to 5". Then trim to 4.5" x 2.25" and lay them on end, instead of using multiple layers of thinner bricks. The cut off pieces I would just use later in the dome construction..

                            Photo of the floor construction. If you look closely you will see the two holes in the CalSil board where the temperature probes will come through under the brick. I used silica pool sand under the bricks as I was laying them to help level things out.

                            Tony
                            Attached Files
                            Tony

                            Link to my oven build thread:
                            40 inch indoor pompeii in NNY

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: 40" Indoor Pompeii in NNY

                              If your landing is small then your vent will be small also, make sure and provide as big of a gap up into your flu as you can. Or as big of an entry is what I mean. Big Flu entry from side to side will really help.

                              One mistake I made was not providing enough area for the smoke to travel up. I have an 8 inch duravent and I still get a lot of smoke out the front. If mine were indoors, I would be in trouble.
                              Since yours is indoors and you have a short enty, consider this.
                              You will not want any smoke coming out the front is the point.
                              Good luck.
                              Darin

                              I often cook with wine, sometimes I even add it to the food...
                              WC Fields


                              Link to my build

                              http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/f8/4...-ca-20497.html

                              Comment

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