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2 questions about the Pompeii Oven build

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  • 2 questions about the Pompeii Oven build

    Hello,
    this is my first thread here.
    I am living in Luebeck, Germany (30miles north of Hamburg) and have been thinking about building an 36" Pompeii Oven for quite some time now. I have been browsing this fantastic forum for a couple of weeks now and I am still in the very early stage of planning.
    For these two questions I would like to get your opinions:

    1. What is the preferred method: dome sits on the oven floor (fire bricks) or directly on the insulation (FB board or vermiculite) layer?

    2. Thickness of dome wall: would be 3.2" (8.3cm) okay?
    Regards, Detlef.

  • #2
    Re: 2 questions about the Pompeii Oven build

    Welcome Detlef

    The dome should set on the floor and all of the dome and floor on the FB board.
    The thickness of the dome should be a ½ brick or about 4.5 inches or 11.5 cm

    hope that helps

    Texman
    My Progress:
    http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/f8/t...ild-17324.html

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: 2 questions about the Pompeii Oven build

      Detlef,

      Welcome! I second Texman's advice regarding the floor sitting directly on top of your insulation layer. Chances are good you can source ceramic fiber board locally from a refractory supplier or boiler manufacturer. It takes twice the depth of vermicrete to equal a given depth of CF board.

      If your firebricks are of good quality and you do not project having to replace them later on, placing the dome on top of the floor bricks is a viable option. If you forsee having to replace a floor brick in the future, it will help to build the floor inside the dome with a 1/4" gap between floor perimeter and dome. Just remember to insulate above and around your oven as much as you can afford.

      3.2" of wall thickness is fine. A thinner dome cools off faster than a thicker one, but also heats up faster. If you wish to add a bit (1") of thermal mass for added heat retention, you can do so with a castable refractory or even leftover mortar.

      Take your time, ask a lot of questions, and don't rush your build. (you only get to build it once). Then you can step back, admire your work and say Ausgezeichtnet!

      Johann (John)

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: 2 questions about the Pompeii Oven build

        Hallo Detlef,

        I am an expat German building an oven to make some Zwiebelkuchen over here in the US. Well, I guess you can probably figure out what area in Germany I'm from.

        I just started my build about three weeks ago. For what it's worth, I built the dome on the floor. From what I've read, it seems like people have done it both ways without problems. I figured rough cutting the outside was a lot easier than precision cutting the inside, so I opted for building the dome on the floor.

        Viel Glück,

        Hubert.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: 2 questions about the Pompeii Oven build

          A thicker dome takes longer time to heat but cools down slower. If you build with the thickness recommended by the plans (2") you are expected to wait 90 to 120 mins from match to get to pizza temp depending on your insulation. If it were my oven and I was expecting multiple day heat retention, I would build with 2" thick and add more insulation, this will make your oven more efficient at taking heat and retaining it. I don't say 3.5" is bad, but I see that more suitable for a commercial oven which is let everyday and needs that thermal mass as opposed to a home edition oven which is let at request. Eventually, you are the one who will be using the oven. If you can wait for the thick bricks to heat up so go with it. "david s" estimates the heat up time for ovens as 1hr/1" dome thickness.
          gute Bau.
          mit freundlichen Grüßen
          V12spirit.
          Why is this thus? What is the reason for this thusness?
          I forgot who said that.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: 2 questions about the Pompeii Oven build

            2" would be considered a thin dome. Perfect for rapid heat up to cook a few pizzas and done. For a full range of use (pizza>bread>meat>vegetables over 3 or 4 days), 4" would be reasonable. Decide how you will use the oven and build your thermal mass accordingly. Insulate it to the limits of your design and ability to pay.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: 2 questions about the Pompeii Oven build

              Originally posted by hubert_s View Post
              Hallo Detlef,

              I am an expat German building an oven to make some Zwiebelkuchen over here in the US.

              .
              Hi Hubert,
              I happen to be learning German. Am in the midway so far. What is Zwiebelkuchen? is it a kind of pizza or pasta in the oven? Interested to see some pics of your Zwiebelkuchen in the forum "Brick oven cooking" if you care. BTW Where do you come from Germany?
              Why is this thus? What is the reason for this thusness?
              I forgot who said that.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: 2 questions about the Pompeii Oven build

                Originally posted by v12spirit View Post
                Hi Hubert,
                I happen to be learning German. Am in the midway so far. What is Zwiebelkuchen? is it a kind of pizza or pasta in the oven? Interested to see some pics of your Zwiebelkuchen in the forum "Brick oven cooking" if you care. BTW Where do you come from Germany?
                Zwiebelkuchen is an onion pie. It is a regional specialty in Schwaben (Swabia), but there is a different version made in Baden. I grew up in a small village south of Stuttgart that had a community wood fired oven. Zwiebelkuchen was always the first thing to be baked in the oven after removing the ashes because it bakes at high heat. Like pizza, Zwiebelkuchen is made with a yeast dough, but often contains egg and melted butter. The pie is topped with onions (raw or cooked, depends on your preference) and a sauce made from eggs, quark (similar to greek yoghurt), sour cream, heavy cream, a mashed potato and most importantly, rendered pork fat called Griebenschmalz. You can substitute rendered bacon pieces and use the fat for the sauce. In some areas, caraway seeds are added, but salt and pepper and maybe nutmeg is more typical where I grew up. I will try to post pictures and a recipe the first time I bake a Zwiebelkuchen in my oven.

                There is a somewhat similar pie made in the Alsace region close by called Flammkuchen. The crust does not use yeast and it is more about bacon than onion. Very delicious as well.

                Viel Erfolg beim Deutsch Lernen!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: 2 questions about the Pompeii Oven build

                  Originally posted by Protoolskaiser View Post
                  Hello,
                  this is my first thread here.
                  I am living in Luebeck, Germany (30miles north of Hamburg) and have been thinking about building an 36" Pompeii Oven for quite some time now. I have been browsing this fantastic forum for a couple of weeks now and I am still in the very early stage of planning.
                  For these two questions I would like to get your opinions:

                  1. What is the preferred method: dome sits on the oven floor (fire bricks) or directly on the insulation (FB board or vermiculite) layer?

                  2. Thickness of dome wall: would be 3.2" (8.3cm) okay?
                  Regards, Detlef.
                  You can build the oven on top of the floor or the floor inside the oven perimeter. But either way you should have insulation surrounding the whole oven. If you build the floor inside the oven walls then you have the advantage of easily replacing any floor bricks which seem to suffer more stress and wear than the dome bricks.
                  Kindled with zeal and fired with passion.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: 2 questions about the Pompeii Oven build

                    Hi Detlef,
                    I'm a Brit living just outside of Leipzig in Falkenhain and I am about to start on my oven build.

                    Have you found a good source for FB (and what is it called auf Deutsche)?
                    What is the German for a medium duty firebrick?

                    Zwiebelkuchen is also known as Tarte Flambee.

                    Cheers
                    Titus

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: 2 questions about the Pompeii Oven build

                      Originally posted by Titus A Duxass View Post
                      Hi Detlef,
                      I'm a Brit living just outside of Leipzig in Falkenhain and I am about to start on my oven build.

                      Have you found a good source for FB (and what is it called auf Deutsche)?
                      What is the German for a medium duty firebrick?

                      Zwiebelkuchen is also known as Tarte Flambee.

                      Cheers
                      Titus
                      Hi Titus,
                      do you mean CF Board? (Ceramic Fiber Board, some like to call it FB Board (Forno Bravo Board)) That would be "Keramische Faser Platte". Some people call it just "Isolierplatte" (Insulation Board).
                      Here is a link to a good online shop:

                      Isolierplatten, druckfest

                      A medium duty firebrick is a brick with an alumina content of about 35%.
                      Here is a link:

                      Schamottestein Schuba®FFS-A35t, 250x124x64mm

                      I am also about to start my oven build. I will post some pictures very soon.
                      Cheers, Detlef Brockmann,
                      Last edited by Protoolskaiser; 06-11-2014, 11:56 AM.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: 2 questions about the Pompeii Oven build

                        Originally posted by texman View Post
                        Welcome Detlef

                        The dome should set on the floor and all of the dome and floor on the FB board.
                        The thickness of the dome should be a ½ brick or about 4.5 inches or 11.5 cm

                        hope that helps

                        Texman
                        Hi Texman,

                        I will go to Naples in July and try to get these Biscotto di Sorrento.
                        Since I don't have any experience regarding their performance, durability etc. I would like to have the option of replacing them with other fire bricks in the future. So I guess I will not place the dome on the floor but on the CF Board.
                        Cheers, Detlef.


                        I will

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: 2 questions about the Pompeii Oven build

                          Originally posted by GianniFocaccia View Post
                          Detlef,

                          Welcome! I second Texman's advice regarding the floor sitting directly on top of your insulation layer. Chances are good you can source ceramic fiber board locally from a refractory supplier or boiler manufacturer. It takes twice the depth of vermicrete to equal a given depth of CF board.

                          If your firebricks are of good quality and you do not project having to replace them later on, placing the dome on top of the floor bricks is a viable option. If you forsee having to replace a floor brick in the future, it will help to build the floor inside the dome with a 1/4" gap between floor perimeter and dome. Just remember to insulate above and around your oven as much as you can afford.

                          3.2" of wall thickness is fine. A thinner dome cools off faster than a thicker one, but also heats up faster. If you wish to add a bit (1") of thermal mass for added heat retention, you can do so with a castable refractory or even leftover mortar.

                          Take your time, ask a lot of questions, and don't rush your build. (you only get to build it once). Then you can step back, admire your work and say Ausgezeichtnet!

                          Johann (John)
                          Hi Johann, Hubert, V12spirit, Tscarborough and david s,

                          I will go to Naples in July and try to get these Biscotto di Sorrento.
                          Since I don't have any experience regarding their performance, durability etc. I would like to have the option of replacing them with other fire bricks in the future. So I guess I will not place the dome on the floor but on the CF Board.

                          About the thickness:
                          I made up my mind and decided to set my priority on making a 60sec. neapolitan pizza. So I will stick with a thickness of about 6cm (2.4").
                          Cheers, Detlef.
                          Last edited by Protoolskaiser; 06-11-2014, 09:34 AM.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: 2 questions about the Pompeii Oven build

                            Detlef, that sounds like a good plan. Enjoy your trip to Italy!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: 2 questions about the Pompeii Oven build

                              Originally posted by Protoolskaiser View Post
                              Hi Titus,
                              do you mean CF Board? (Ceramic Fiber Board, some like to call it FB Board (Forno Bravo Board)) That would be "Keramische Faser Platte". Some people call it just "Isolierplatte" (Insulation Board).
                              Here is a link to a good online shop:

                              Isolierplatten, druckfest

                              A medium duty firebrick is a brick with an alumina content of about 35%.
                              Here is a link:

                              Schamottestein Schuba®FFS-A35t, 250x124x64mm

                              I am also about to start my oven build. I will post some pictures very soon.
                              Cheers, Detlef Brockmann,
                              Detlef you are a star - Danke!

                              I will also be starting my oven build soon, the base (foundation) is already in place.

                              TAD

                              Comment

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