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First Course of Brick - Forno Bravo Forum: The Wood-Fired Oven Community

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First Course of Brick

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  • First Course of Brick

    Hello all,

    I have finished building my stand and over floor and now I am getting ready to start my first course. One question I have which seems to be absent from the instructions is whether or not I should mortar the first course on the bottom of the brick? I chose to build the floor out big enough so that the first course will be on top of the herringbone floor. Any help here would be much appreciated. Also for the entryway did you mortar your first course of brick on each side to the floor?

    If it matters I have the floor on top of the fiber board purchased from FB.

    PS I am in the UP of Michigan and this is a hold over project from last year and I am very anxious to uncover the oven and get going!
    Attached Files

  • #2
    Re: First Course of Brick

    It is common (at least that's what I did!) to place the soldiers bricks directly on the fiber board and then have the floor bricks inside of the soldier wall. In that case there is no mortar between the soldiers and the floor bricks and in fact most people leave a small expansion gap.

    That said, I don't see why your design wouldn't work... I would only mortar the soldiers to each other and not mortar them to the floor. It seems that would allow a little expansion. But others may have opinions and weigh in

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: First Course of Brick

      My first course is just sitting on the cooking floor, no mortar.

      From the picture, it looks like your arch form is at the full height. You may want to cut an inch or so off the bottom and prop it up with wedges. When your done with the arch, you pull the wedges and the form drops right out.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: First Course of Brick

        I mortared my first course directly to the floor brick, but I didn't do a soldier, just straight into the dome.
        Time flies like an arrow; Fruit Flies like a banana.

        My oven (thus far): http://www.tinyurl.com/ogorirsoven

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: First Course of Brick

          Up,

          You have a choice of place your soldiers on the floor on or on the insulation. If you are enclosing the oven then placing on the floor will save a lot of floor cutting. If you are doing a dome and want that shape all the way to the base then probably need the cut the floor brick to fit inside the dome. In either case, like Boer and Hub said, the first course should "not" be mortared to the floor only mortar the vertical joints. You want some expansion ability for the dome and the floor.
          Russell

          Link to my Picasa Album
          https://plus.google.com/photos/10287...21083003687777

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: First Course of Brick

            UP -
            Another vote here for no mortar under the bricks. The weight will hold it.

            One comment on your arch design - it's easier to tie your dome into the arch if you build it as a true arch rather than an axed arch (that's what your current design is called). Check out John (Gianni Focaccia) or Russell's (Utah Beehiver) for good examples of that design. You can check mine for somebody who started on the path you are on, changed his mind, and is glad he did!
            My build progress
            My WFO Journal on Facebook
            My dome spreadsheet calculator

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: First Course of Brick

              Originally posted by deejayoh View Post
              .......
              build it as a true arch rather than an axed arch (that's what your current design is called).
              What do you mean Deejay?
              Last edited by stonecutter; 05-06-2014, 09:20 PM.
              Old World Stone & Garden

              Current WFO build - Dry Stone Base & Gothic Vault

              When we build, let us think that we build for ever.
              John Ruskin

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: First Course of Brick

                like this

                My build progress
                My WFO Journal on Facebook
                My dome spreadsheet calculator

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: First Course of Brick

                  I just want to be clear, for the sake of using proper terminology. You said to build a true arch, then you mentioned an axed arch. Your picture shows a semi circular arch which is has cut brick voussoirs and the OP shows centering for a segmental arch, no voussoirs in place.

                  So if you please, ( to satisfy my irritating curiosity ) when you said true arch, were you referring to the shape of the voussoirs or the shape arch? As far as the obvious joint size difference comparing a fine axed arch VS a rough arch, it matters little in structural strength for a wfo if the voussoirs are cut or not. The biggest reason to shape voussoirs is aesthetics ....and the arch in your pic is very nice.

                  Also, if the voussoirs in your pic have been cut on lines that radiate from one center, then that is called a Gauged Arch... Not an axed arch.
                  Old World Stone & Garden

                  Current WFO build - Dry Stone Base & Gothic Vault

                  When we build, let us think that we build for ever.
                  John Ruskin

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: First Course of Brick

                    Up_mambo,
                    Glad to hear the snow has melted up there. Stonecutter gave me a great tutorial on building a Roman Arch entry. Check post #346 in this thread.

                    http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/6/36...tml#post156902

                    While I wouldn't suggest my build as a sterling example of great technique, it does show that with the help of this forum, a working WFO can be built by someone without any experience with bricks and mortar. Good luck and I hope you can finish before the snow starts again. BTW, I grew up in Detroit.
                    Link to my build here:
                    http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/f6/3...lly-19181.html

                    Check out my pictures here:

                    Selected pictures of the build.

                    https://picasaweb.google.com/1168565...g&noredirect=1





                    sigpic “In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they are not.” ― Albert Einstein

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: First Course of Brick

                      Hey Bruce,

                      Glad to see you are still around........tried any of those spices yet?
                      Russell

                      Link to my Picasa Album
                      https://plus.google.com/photos/10287...21083003687777

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: First Course of Brick

                        Stonecutter -

                        I defer to you on bricklaying terminology!

                        My point was not so much about name of of the arch as it was about the process of tying the dome into the arch. Myself and other builders have found that it's much easier to do w/the semi-circular arch shape in the picture I posted (which was from Russell's thread), where the backs of the bricks are cut away to the angle of the bricks that meet it from the dome. All this is well covered in the threads I referenced

                        I keep getting "IP blocked" messages from the server, so I can't really post much
                        My build progress
                        My WFO Journal on Facebook
                        My dome spreadsheet calculator

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: First Course of Brick

                          Originally posted by UtahBeehiver View Post
                          Hey Bruce,

                          Glad to see you are still around........tried any of those spices yet?
                          Spices are very good, have used them both for grilling and sautés.

                          I have been using the oven and the water proofing seems to be working well. But I haven't done any additional work on the counters or roof structure. Have thought about starting a thread on the "What's cooking" section but not sure I have much to contribute compared to other "chefs" on the site. Bruce
                          Link to my build here:
                          http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/f6/3...lly-19181.html

                          Check out my pictures here:

                          Selected pictures of the build.

                          https://picasaweb.google.com/1168565...g&noredirect=1





                          sigpic “In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they are not.” ― Albert Einstein

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: First Course of Brick

                            Originally posted by deejayoh View Post
                            Stonecutter -

                            I defer to you on bricklaying terminology!

                            My point was not so much about name of of the arch as it was about the process of tying the dome into the arch. Myself and other builders have found that it's much easier to do w/the semi-circular arch shape in the picture I posted (which was from Russell's thread), where the backs of the bricks are cut away to the angle of the bricks that meet it from the dome. All this is well covered in the threads I referenced

                            I keep getting "IP blocked" messages from the server, so I can't really post much
                            I would imagine coming into a bevel on the semi circular arch is easier than the abutments on a segmental one for a new builder. I know what you are talking about.

                            And my only purpose with posts like that is so information doesn't get confusing by using different terms than what it rely is....not to 'correct' anybody. I hope you took it that way.
                            Last edited by stonecutter; 05-07-2014, 12:17 PM.
                            Old World Stone & Garden

                            Current WFO build - Dry Stone Base & Gothic Vault

                            When we build, let us think that we build for ever.
                            John Ruskin

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: First Course of Brick

                              SC and DJ,

                              For us laymen it is good to know what is what, for the longest time, I was confused of what a "sailor", "soldier", "stretcher", and "half header" were and still confused. All in all it is good to know what is what. BTW, SC your roof looks nice.
                              Russell

                              Link to my Picasa Album
                              https://plus.google.com/photos/10287...21083003687777

                              Comment

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