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Concrete Foundation Base Cracked...Damn it! - Forno Bravo Forum: The Wood-Fired Oven Community

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Concrete Foundation Base Cracked...Damn it!

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  • Concrete Foundation Base Cracked...Damn it!

    Hey everyone,

    I made the mistake of having a landscape contractor pour my foundation base. I told them i needed to be deep enough to endure the freezing here in MA.

    I dont think they went down even 4" now a have huge crack right thru the middle...and my oven is already built!

    Help! i dont want all this blood, sweat and tears to crumble to the ground.

    Photo attached ( crack is in red box area)

    Any advice on how to remedy the problem? Someone had suggested to dig all around the foundation and install foam insulation to help with the frost issue.

    Any help would be great.

    Thanks
    Ed
    Attached Files

  • #2
    Re: Concrete Foundation Base Cracked...Damn it!

    The best thing to do is watch it for growth and not do anything you don't need to...or that won't help. Give it a month or so, unless it starts opening up fast. Measure it now and in a few weeks, that will give you an idea of what's going on.


    And it's a little late now, but most landscapers do not have structural masonry knowledge. Shoot, a lot of masons have no clue about structural masonry.....
    Old World Stone & Garden

    Current WFO build - Dry Stone Base & Gothic Vault

    When we build, let us think that we build for ever.
    John Ruskin

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Concrete Foundation Base Cracked...Damn it!

      Yea, i know...newbie mistake. Should have just done it myself. Landscaper was installing patio block for me and i had them just do it at that time. Lesson learned.

      Do you think digging around it an putting insulation in will help from futher movement (ie frost heaving)?

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Concrete Foundation Base Cracked...Damn it!

        Nope......
        Old World Stone & Garden

        Current WFO build - Dry Stone Base & Gothic Vault

        When we build, let us think that we build for ever.
        John Ruskin

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Concrete Foundation Base Cracked...Damn it!

          I agree...insulation will do nothing. Insulation simply slows the transfer of heat from one side to the other. Once your ground freezes, it will heave.

          Personal opinion, I think your oven should be okay, as long as you have a thick reinforced concrete slab at the base of your oven.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Concrete Foundation Base Cracked...Damn it!

            No sweat. Just seal the crack and do what you can to keep water off of it. I don't know what you have underneath or within the slab itself but there isn't much you can do about it now.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Concrete Foundation Base Cracked...Damn it!

              AT, I'm not dogging you, so nothing personal...but you don't want to seal a crack unless you are positive it won't expand. He needs to monitor this thing to figure out the next step. Agree on keeping it dry as you can, water under any slab isn't good.
              Old World Stone & Garden

              Current WFO build - Dry Stone Base & Gothic Vault

              When we build, let us think that we build for ever.
              John Ruskin

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Concrete Foundation Base Cracked...Damn it!

                The area appears very wet I suggest that you drill into the lowest course of blocks epoxy in some starter bars say every 8 inches , tie in anew reinforcing and pour an additional 4 inches or more of concrete. This will raise the area out oof the moisture and tie the base of the oven resisting differential movement. Make sure you put some plastic over the existing slab to prevent the two sticking together and transferring the crack
                A6 or 8 inch slab would be better

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Concrete Foundation Base Cracked...Damn it!

                  Originally posted by Toomulla View Post
                  The area appears very wet I suggest that you drill into the lowest course of blocks epoxy in some starter bars say every 8 inches , tie in anew reinforcing and pour an additional 4 inches or more of concrete. This will raise the area out oof the moisture and tie the base of the oven resisting differential movement. Make sure you put some plastic over the existing slab to prevent the two sticking together and transferring the crack
                  A6 or 8 inch slab would be better
                  What???!! Why in the world would you want to pour another slab over another that may have a bad base? Answer...you don't. And further, an isolation membrane won't stop the new slab from cracking if he anchors it to the existing stand, and that keeps settling...if that's what's happening.
                  Old World Stone & Garden

                  Current WFO build - Dry Stone Base & Gothic Vault

                  When we build, let us think that we build for ever.
                  John Ruskin

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Concrete Foundation Base Cracked...Damn it!

                    One thing you can do, is to try to prevent it from happening again next winter. What's done is done. I agree w/Stonecutter w/the sealing of the crack. For now. As for insulation, you can buy Dow blueboard styrofoam (or another brand) insulation at any big box store. I believe it comes in up to 2" thick. Double it up if you have to. As funny as it may look, if all else fails, buy enough to lay on the ground and weight it down. I can virtually guarantee it will keep the ground around your slab from freezing. Agree, once it's frozen, there is not much to do. Just wait a bit on sealing the crack and make a plan to stop it from happening again and in the future. I've seen firsthand what frost can do. And yes, there are things you can do to minimize the chance of it happening again. The north side is almost always the one to watch.
                    My Build:
                    http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/f8/s...ina-20363.html

                    Ok. It was me. I let the dogs out.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Concrete Foundation Base Cracked...Damn it!

                      Originally posted by stonecutter View Post
                      What???!! Why in the world would you want to pour another slab over another that may have a bad base? Answer...you don't. And further, an isolation membrane won't stop the new slab from cracking if he anchors it to the existing stand, and that keeps settling...if that's what's happening.
                      Why.
                      Pouring a new slab on top of the existing raises the floor out of the moisture
                      The new slab tied to the existing walls supports the oven ties it together and reduces the span of the base thus reducing the bending moments that induced the cracking in the old slab
                      Isolation of the new slab from the old slab prevents transfer of moisture and also prevents transfer cracking from the old slab

                      Nothing he can do will reduce movement due to frost but the suggested actions will result in the oven moving as a unit not breaking it's back

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Concrete Foundation Base Cracked...Damn it!

                        Originally posted by Toomulla View Post
                        Why.
                        Pouring a new slab on top of the existing raises the floor out of the moisture
                        The new slab tied to the existing walls supports the oven ties it together and reduces the span of the base thus reducing the bending moments that induced the cracking in the old slab
                        Isolation of the new slab from the old slab prevents transfer of moisture and also prevents transfer cracking from the old slab

                        Nothing he can do will reduce movement due to frost but the suggested actions will result in the oven moving as a unit not breaking it's back
                        Here's why....

                        The existing slab might have a problem with settling or it is too thin and unreinforced ie; it is not adequate for a freeze thaw zone. I don't know if you have experience building in that type of climate, but problems will magnify with every cycle.

                        Pouring a slab on top of another and fixing it to perimeter walls does absolutely nothing to support the load applied above it. So, if the slab below continues to settle, the walls settle with it. Why? Because a row of slab pinning is not designed to support weight. You may not see a crack in the center of the new slab, after the new slab is poured, but if your base is bad, they will show up somewhere else....that is a fact.

                        The new slab reduces the span of the base?? How does that happen? The pour isn't under the footprint of the stand..it does nothing to support the load. And pins alone cannot support the base.

                        Thinking you are going to unify the structure with an over pour and pinning it, hoping it stops any settling is wishful thinking...it ain't gonna happen, because that's not how it works.

                        IF this is a settling problem, he will know it if the structural slab starts cracking. But unless this thing starts sinking into the ground or he sees some other major failure, then anything done now may not be the best course of action.
                        The only way I would agree with an over pour is after being sure there is no more settling or if the next freeze thaw cycle doesn't effect the oven. Then you have a nice new wood storage floor.
                        Last edited by stonecutter; 04-10-2014, 04:16 AM. Reason: Sp
                        Old World Stone & Garden

                        Current WFO build - Dry Stone Base & Gothic Vault

                        When we build, let us think that we build for ever.
                        John Ruskin

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Concrete Foundation Base Cracked...Damn it!

                          Read my reply I agree nothing will prevent it moving it's about getting some improvement short of demolition

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Concrete Foundation Base Cracked...Damn it!

                            I did read the reply, that suggestion is just going to add more material to remove later, if the existing slab is no good.
                            Old World Stone & Garden

                            Current WFO build - Dry Stone Base & Gothic Vault

                            When we build, let us think that we build for ever.
                            John Ruskin

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Concrete Foundation Base Cracked...Damn it!

                              I agree he will have to decide to either try and mitigate the problem, can he live with the oven out of level , or decide to pull it down and build the footing on a solid foundation below the frost line

                              Comment

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