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looking for opinions/ideas for space please comment - Forno Bravo Forum: The Wood-Fired Oven Community

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looking for opinions/ideas for space please comment

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  • looking for opinions/ideas for space please comment

    hey there oven folks. Ive made the desicion to build an oven this spring, some where, just trying to decide where. I would like it indoors, in this room if possible . there is an existing chimney there, and it would be an ideal place to do it. this is currently a 3 season room but, would like to make it otherwise. I have been trying to figure out away to put it in this corner, but cant so I figured Id see if you folkes might have some ideas. Here is my issue. the stonework on the back 2 walls is attached to asbestos backerboard. I have had 2 estimates done to remove it and its looking like about 2k to have it removed. the companies that quoted the work assure me that unless the asbestos is cut or broken etc. there is no harm in having it there as it is non-friable. the chimney itself has no asbestos on it and can be altered. if anyone can help me come up with some or any ideas for using this space i would be very happy. the dilema i see is getting the ductwork/chimney situation to work out. here are the pictures of the spot. I appreciate any and all comments.
    Attached Files

  • #2
    Re: looking for opinions/ideas for space please comment

    So why not leave the stone on the back walls alone and integrate that into the design of the oven? You could even cover over it if you are interested in saving money. You run into the asbestos problem (cost) if you want to pull that stone off. I think most who have built indoor ovens have consulted with professionals to ensure safety/compliance with regulations.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: looking for opinions/ideas for space please comment

      First some questions.

      Is it a masonry chimney with a refractory tile liner, or is it a decorative stone cover on an insulated metal flue of some sort?

      Do you need the woodstove to heat the space? The oven won't throw off much heat if it's properly insulated, and they really shouldn't share a flue.

      Do you want the oven access on the side or the front of the oven? The closer the oven opening to the existing flue, the easier it is to route the flue.

      Is there a solid masonry floor, or is there just tile on a wood structure?

      I don't see any reason to disturb the asbestos board. There will be lots of insulation around your oven.
      My geodesic oven project: part 1, part 2

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: looking for opinions/ideas for space please comment

        Hey there thanks for trying to help! I would love to leave the stonework in place, but I dont think the chimey could stay where it is, as this would make the unit to deep and begin to crowd the doorway to the backyard. Also I will eventually make sure code etc. measures up , I just dont think they would be able to guide me as to how to orient the oven etc. I do not think that they would understand the wood oven requirements, quite like people on this board do and i would waste a lot of time. I would like to be able to tell them what I am going to do and them to say that is ok.

        dmun thanks for the questions. the chimney is made of the large concrete squares with a liner. so i am wondering if I can find a way to remove the base of it, so that the oven didnt come too far into the room.

        i have ruled out the possiblility of the oven heating the room, but I hadnt really thought aboout trying to combine the heating and oven chimney. I think I would like to heat this room all winter so I woll have to tie it into my boiler sometime.

        as far as access goes, front, side and in between have come to mind. in between or near the door to the left would be preferable for working room.

        there is a solid masonry floor already. these cobblestones are on top of it

        as I said above i would really hate to have to deal with the back and side wall. thanks for your help in advance!

        -marc

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        • #5
          Re: looking for opinions/ideas for space please comment

          OK, Here's what I'd do. First, unhook the woodstove, and sell it on eBay. Do it while it's still cold, nobody buys them in warm weather. Second, I'd knock off all the decorative stone work off the outside of the concrete block chimney. Leave it on the side and back wall so you don't endanger your Asbestos board. Your contractor is right: It's perfectly safe if it's not broken up. You need a mini sledge for this: try to save enough of the stone to at least make matching accents on your base.

          Now, here's the tricky part. Your flue tile is in 24 inch segments, and there are three chimney blocks per flue tile. I'm guessing they are laid up from the floor so somewhere about six feet from the floor is a dual joint, and you want to break away the chimney blocks and flue tile, and build a support under the chimney, while you demolish most of what's underneath it. Here's how you do this. You go to a structural steel place and buy a four inch I beam that's maybe five or six feet long. A used piece is fine. You want to support both the flue tile and the chimney block stacks (which if they are done right, are independant of one another.) You go to Home depot, and buy two foundation jacks, which are big grey tubes with a screw jack on one end, and a pin arrangement for adjusting their length. You lay up your I beam in a hole you've knocked in either side of your chimney with your mini sledge (wear leather work gloves) Ideally your hole will be level with the bottom of a flue tile and a chimney block. You'll be able to see where your flue tile seams are when you pull out your stove pipe: stock flue tile will have the stove pipe hole in the center. If the seams don't line up you'll have to do some shimming. Your foundation jacks get cranked up until your beam is stressed, but not till the chimney cracks. Your jack positions should be just clear of where your new oven base is going to go.

          Now your chimney is supported, you bust out the bottom of your chimney. I'd suggest trying to break up the chimney blocks so the back layer is still supporting the chimney as a safety measure. If you want, you can leave the bottom four or five blocks as part of your oven slab support.

          Now you can build up your block base, pour your slab, put down your insulation, build your floor and oven with the entry facing the door side, or wherever. The last part will be building a slanted flue section between your oven entry and the existing chimney. Since this is in the house, the flue needs to be slanted no more than thirty degrees, and you'll have some fancy diamond sawing to join the angled flue section to your existing chimney. You then need to build up four inches of masonry around your slanted flue, and to support your chimney from the hearth slab, rather than from the top of your brick dome. Once the structural stuff is done, you can release the jacks, and pull out or cut off the I beam.

          Do some finish masonry and your oven is built and vented. Easier said than done, I know, but I think it's easier than demolishing/rebuilding your chimney.
          My geodesic oven project: part 1, part 2

          Comment


          • #6
            Concern about support and indoor smoke.

            (M) David (dmun) has done a lot of heavy structural work in pursuit of his oven so his is arguably the most valuable advice.

            (M) My main concern is support for what will be a very heavy oven. I see heavy masonry blocks in your photos but can only guess at what supports the floor where your iron stove sits. If you have been under the house and know that you have solid, uninterrupted masonry to a concrete footing then I guess your job would be a lot easier.

            (M) My other concern is with smoke inside your house. There are many indoor ovens that work successfully but they have been very carefully and thoughtfully vented. I would guess that even the best leak some smoke into the room just as a conventional fireplace does. If you're confident that you'll be able to build your oven to ensure an excellent draft then go for it!

            Ciao,

            Marcel
            "Everything should be made as simple as possible, ...
            but no simpler!" (Albert Einstein)

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: looking for opinions/ideas for space please comment

              hey there again. the floor is a 10" + slab so weight is not a concern. I am picturing doing as you have described , and can see it all kind of working, until i get to the venting. this part I cannot picture. what height does your average well vented pizza oven usually begin at. I know its in the front, but dou you think that I can return the vent to the main chimney without going through the ceiling, any more thoughts? thanks for all the progress. -marc

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: looking for opinions/ideas for space please comment

                David has nicely addressed the use of your existing chimney, but I'm still concerned about the size of your oven within that space. It looks like the short stone covered wall is 3-4 feet. Your doorway is going to be occluded by the oven. Can you move the doorway over (or is it a double door you can convert to a single panel door)?

                You have flexibility with the hearth height, although for most people the height is 40.5" at the top of the hearth bricks, plus the vent opening. For my 18" high oven the vent opening is roughly 13" giving a vent height of 53.5". Depending on your oven design, this could be lower. You could build a lower hearth stand (better if you are on the short side, there are useability issues if you get too low), or use firebrick splits in the floor (this might be too much of a tradeoff in losing heat retention), or build lower dome as some have posted here recently.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: looking for opinions/ideas for space please comment

                  thanks for the help you guys, I am currently working on a drawing with google sketch up and things are looking quite possible. when i am done with it , I will post it up here for you guys take a look at thanks -marc

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: looking for opinions/ideas for space please comment

                    SO , I am looking for opinions for this portion. Decided to rip out the hearth, and undecorate the chimney. What fun so far! There is going to be plenty of room for the oven and stand, as I have drawn everything to scale and made sure before the madness started. Assuming the mouth of the oven will be at a 45 degree angle out of the corner, faced evenly into the room, does it make any since to try to work around the chimney, and try to pipe the vent into it. At this point there has been a lot of discussion about removing it before moving ahead, and doing the venting as if it was in an area, that did not have a chimney near it. whadda ya folks think and thanks again. if the chimney is coming down, it will happen early next week.
                    Attached Files

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: looking for opinions/ideas for space please comment

                      If you have room it makes sense to pipe the vent into it to avoid worrying about the stability of the column of chimney above that room. Just be very careful about compliance with fire codes (angles of the oven vent to the chimney, etc... ). That space looks bigger with the wood stove out but it still looks to me like a squeeze. What footprint are you allowing for the oven, insulation and enclosure? Are you planning a 36" dome?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: looking for opinions/ideas for space please comment

                        Hey guys, looking for another opinion, big suprise huh! here is what Im proposing for the layout of my oven base. I have decided on a 36" oven and thinking that this would be the best pattern for it. this allows the base to get right up next to the existing rocks and firewall. this way, I can favor the dome towards the back and use the loose insulation between the dome and the rocks. will it be a problem to have these triangular gaps at the intersections or can I just put a form up and fill the areas(3) with concrete when I fill the other holes? also, using the dry stack technique and filling the every other hole, how do you block the concrete from going down the empty holes when pouring the hearth floor. fire away and thanks a lot! I cant believe I am finally doing this! -marc
                        Attached Files

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: looking for opinions/ideas for space please comment

                          Hey Marc,
                          I am having trouble picturing how you are doing to put the chimney to good use. You would have to route the the chimney for the vent at the front of the oven to the existing chimney opening. I would guess it is about 5' high, which would put a serious backward angle in the chimney as it ran backward, across the length of the oven. Your chimney would go also straight back, the at a 90º angle up -- which gives me some concerns about how well it will draw.

                          Also, the exsiting chimney sticks out, and might get in the way of the back left corner of the oven dome.

                          What does everyone else think?

                          How large is your footprint? That will determine how large of an oven you can fit it. There are 4 drawings in the oven plans that show a corner layout for various size ovens. Those should help.

                          Here is a photo of my corner oven -- it might help you picture it.
                          James
                          Attached Files
                          Pizza Ovens
                          Outdoor Fireplaces

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: looking for opinions/ideas for space please comment

                            Hey there James, I guess I forgot to mention that if you look in the thumbnail I attached, my buddy and i removed the chimney earlier this week so right now I am just focusing on the block stand. I jsut want to make sure it is stable enough, and am still wondering what to do with the ooen holes that are not filled with concrete. thanks a lot -marc

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: looking for opinions/ideas for space please comment

                              Well, at least I made the right guess on that one. There are a couple of recommendations on the block cores in the plans (crumpled paper), so you are on your way.
                              James
                              Pizza Ovens
                              Outdoor Fireplaces

                              Comment

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