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alternative cheap insulation?

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  • alternative cheap insulation?

    I recently calculated the prices of the materials I need for my Pompeii oven and am coming well over 800 (ca. $1,140). Here in Ireland everything seems to be more expensive.

    Locally sourced firebricks would cost me 3 ($4.30) each, vermiculite is at 23 ($33) per 100 litre bag (which is only about 40 cubic inch). These are really the two bad boys that are making the whole thing expensive.

    Anyways to get to the point I really need to save materials and to save on vermiculite I was thinking about walling in the dome and filling it with something cheap, maybe sand or rockwool as insulation. I might be able to add 5cm (2 inch) of vermiculite concrete on the outside of the dome which would correlate to two bags at the very most.

    Would this work?

    P.s. Also if anyone has the conductivity or resistivity of the aforementioned materials or other alternatives It would be very helpful for me to calculate the u-values, thanks

  • #2
    Re: alternative cheap insulation?

    Don't use sand. Sand is NOT an insulator. If you can do 2" of vermiculite/cement outside the dome that would be a good start.

    I'm not very familiar with Rockwool. I'm sure someone will jump in with an opinion on that. Might be ok outside the 2" of vermiculite.
    Ken H. - Kentucky
    42" Pompeii

    Pompeii Oven Construction Video Updated!

    Oven Thread ... Enclosure Thread
    Cost Spreadsheet ... Picasa Web Album

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    • #3
      Re: alternative cheap insulation?

      Rockwool also known as Stonewool is fine alternative and at least around here cost friendly. Check your local boat yard supply, foundry supply, or building supply places for availability. I was able to get 2 inch rigid Calcium Silicate board through a Foundry supply and 3.5 inch Rockwool boards, from a industrial insulation company, both at excellent pricing, I hope these will work for you as well. The Stonewool insulation around my dome took a bit of ripping and stuffing but I’m delighted at the performance. I had enough Rigid insulation left over to use it for the oven door.

      Chris

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      • #4
        Re: alternative cheap insulation?

        thermal conductivity of dry sand 0.16 -0.25 variability depending presumably on grain size and shape. Thermal conductivity 4:1 vermicrete is 0.16 dry vermiculit 0.06
        If it were me I'd be scrounging around building sites and picking up scraps of ceiling insulation offcuts from their dumpsters, if you have a layer of vermicrete under this there should not be any issues of binders burning. This will work well for an enclosure but not for an igloo. The stuff compresses too easily to stucco over for an igloo finish.
        Kindled with zeal and fired with passion.

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        • #5
          Re: alternative cheap insulation?

          I haven't been aware of binders in Rock/Stonewool being a problem, smell or otherwise. The product available here is used and accepted in our building codes as insulation backing for residential fireplaces. It’s stable in heat and not hard to work with. I didn’t build an igloo type structure but if you are I’d recommend the ceramic blanket because of the capability to more easily wrap the round shape. You could use the Rock/Stonewool to form against the dome and I don’t believe compression would be an issue but getting the nice round igloo shape will be some work. If you’re going with an oven enclosure the Rock/Stonewool is economic and efficient.


          Chris

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          • #6
            Re: alternative cheap insulation?

            Originally posted by david s View Post
            I'd be scrounging around building sites and picking up scraps of ceiling insulation offcuts from their dumpsters,
            There are not too many building sites in Ireland at the minute, thats why all the Irish lads are over here working.
            The English language was invented by people who couldnt spell.

            My Build.

            Books.

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            • #7
              Re: alternative cheap insulation?

              Rockwool Limited
              Unit 11
              Northwood Court
              Northwood Business Campus
              Santry
              Dublin 9
              Ireland
              Tel: +353 1 891 1055
              Fax: +353 1 891 1056

              Chris

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              • #8
                Re: alternative cheap insulation?

                Why not opt for a cheaper brick? This is how I saved alot in my project..
                Sure i may not be using firebricks, but I'm sure with solid clay bricks im going to get pretty damn close.

                No matter what you do.. dont skimp on insulation.. its the single most important aspect.

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                • #9
                  Re: alternative cheap insulation?

                  Hey Chris,

                  Where did you get your stonewool? Was it really inexpensive? If I rermember, you used rigid board for your hotface.

                  John

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                  • #10
                    Re: alternative cheap insulation?

                    +1 on 'not skimping on insulation'.
                    My oven (for now):
                    http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/f43/...ven-14269.html

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                    • #11
                      Re: alternative cheap insulation?

                      John, I went to Pacific Insulation in San Pedro or there abouts.

                      Under the oven I went with 2" rigid SiCal.
                      Around the oven I went with stonewool in direct contact with the dome and tucked into what gaps there were.
                      In the corners of the structure I went with 8" non-faced fiberglass insulation it was quickly available and since it wasn't going to have high heat, binders burning weren't and won't be an issue- Lowes
                      Once I had tucked and stuffed these I poured vermiculite into structure to fill the little gaps.

                      Chris

                      PS. I thought Id also pass along that high density Stonewool board is used as a base for stucco, so stability souldn't be an issue. I havent seen it but given the density, it seems to me that it could work under the oven floor. Id start with the manufacture and verify stability and lack of toxicity of binders at something over 900F, if they are present. Id want to bring the whole oven to high heat for several hours to verify that anything that might need cooking out does. The last thing anyone needs is an oven that isn't usable because of outgassing of sub-floor insulation. Again, Id start with the manufacture.
                      Last edited by SCChris; 06-30-2011, 07:43 AM.

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                      • #12
                        Re: alternative cheap insulation?

                        Originally posted by chidding View Post
                        Why not opt for a cheaper brick? This is how I saved alot in my project..
                        Sure i may not be using firebricks, but I'm sure with solid clay bricks im going to get pretty damn close.

                        No matter what you do.. dont skimp on insulation.. its the single most important aspect.
                        couldnt agree more
                        used solid reds for floor and dome,goes like a bomb!
                        insulation is crucial!
                        an Italian freind has had an oven made of red brick for 17 yrs that is 2 meters wide and used 3 times a week for semi-commercial bread making.It was recently rebuilt with same bricks as the base was rusting!
                        Mortar used was clay slurry from back yard
                        any oven you can afford and have immediatly is better than one you cant afford

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                        • #13
                          Re: alternative cheap insulation?

                          These folks might have access to chipped and otherwise, in their opinion, inferior firebrick. I also remember some in the UK using "Heater Brick" as a cheaper alternative, although I don't find the thread right now.


                          Firebacks, Fire Bricks, Flues, Pots, Grates, Tiles And Refractory Products Dineen Sales Ireland

                          Chris

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                          • #14
                            Re: alternative cheap insulation?

                            Why not use normal bricks for the dome, i did and had no problems (get russel jeavons book) also you could use (kingspan Insulation) that is made in Dublin and there is allways loads left after a job which gets skipped, I used it on my first oven and it worked a treat. I would use firebrick on the slab though. But possibly engineering brick would work in thoery as it is fired to such a high temperature in its manufacture, good luck with everything

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                            • #15
                              Re: alternative cheap insulation?

                              I looked into using lava rock.... it's cheaper. And I'm not so sure it wouldn't work well.
                              My thread:
                              http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/f8/d...ress-2476.html
                              My costs:
                              http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?k...Xr0fvgxuh4s7Hw
                              My pics:
                              http://picasaweb.google.com/dawatsonator

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