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The vent and oven draw

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  • The vent and oven draw

    I just lit my first fire in our Artigiano with the vent and chimney pipe attached. I know you already know this, but wow! What a difference. I've been curing and cooking with the oven for some time without the vent/chimney and after the oven gets hot, it does a so-so job of venting smoke and hot air out the top of the opening. But I lit a couple of damp concrete bags for my vent test (to make sure no smoke was leaking out of the assembly) -- and it was great!

    The top half of the oven opening was sucking up the smoke up and out (it was full) and the bottom half was drawing in cold air (it was completely clear).

    It's so cool seeing these ovens work properly. Eccellente.
    James
    Pizza Ovens
    Outdoor Fireplaces

  • #2
    Re: The vent and oven draw

    Way to go James!

    Pics...............


    My thread:
    http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/f8/d...ress-2476.html
    My costs:
    http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?k...Xr0fvgxuh4s7Hw
    My pics:
    http://picasaweb.google.com/dawatsonator

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: The vent and oven draw

      I have had so many guests comment on that when they see it...the clear air at the bottom and the smoke and gases out the top...could really explain to the kids the reason for crawling out of a burning building
      Dutch
      "Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity. " Charles Mingus
      "Build at least two brick ovens...one to make all the mistakes on and the other to be just like you dreamed of!" Dutch

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: The vent and oven draw

        James, probalby been asked elsewhere but I can't locate it. Are there "best practice" dimensions for vent and flue"? My vent opening is 19" x 4", nearly the entire width of the arc and reduces down to accomodate an 8"x12"x24" flue. At this point (two days of curing fires) I am not particularly impressed with my draw. Certainly not the show you describe above. I am wondering if extending the flue (by adding another 24" length), reducing the size down to 8"x8" or both would help the draw. Any thoughts?

        Thanks for any help.
        Jim
        Last edited by jcg31; 02-29-2008, 06:48 PM.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: The vent and oven draw

          Originally posted by jcg31 View Post
          James, probalby been asked elsewhere but I can't locate it. Are there "best practice" dimensions for vent and flue"? My vent opening is 19" x 4", nearly the entire width of the arc and reduces down to accomodate an 8"x12"x24" flue. At this point (two days of curing fires) I am not particularly impressed with my draw. Certainly not the show you describe above. I am wondering if extending the flue (by adding another 24" length), reducing the size down to 8"x8" or both would help the draw. Any thoughts?

          Thanks for any help.
          Jim
          I'm also very interested in this question. My vent area is almost 7x7 with a 24" vent. I have another 24" section if needed, but am concern about the weight, though it seems real sturdy now.
          RCLake

          "It's time to go Vertical"
          Oven Thread

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: The vent and oven draw

            When thinking about oven draw you are trying to create a constriction in space to create an area of low pressure...generally speaking I think most try to reduce the space by half...in square inches...so jcg 4x19=76sqin...8x12=96sqin...you should see if you can change flue tile to a 6x6...although 8x8 would work...taller is better also if you have the right ratio in the reduction...as Dmun said in a post in another thread "serious boilers have very tall chimneys because they supercharge the firebox"...
            RC if your vent opening is indeed 7x7 you should look to reduce to a 4 inch flue...or make the vent opening larger
            hope this helps
            Dutch
            "Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity. " Charles Mingus
            "Build at least two brick ovens...one to make all the mistakes on and the other to be just like you dreamed of!" Dutch

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: The vent and oven draw

              By your listed dimensions the opening is 76 sq inches and it transistions to an opening of 96 sq inches. Thanks to Bernoulli's law we know that when a moving fluid slows down pressure increases and when it speeds up pressure falls. Your vent by transitioning to a larger opening slows down the air at that point and raises pressure. What you want is the opposite to happen, so it would be better to reduce the area of your flue to a value less than the area of your opening. That will cause the air to increase speed and the pressure in the flue to be less than the vent opening. The 8x8 you suggested would seem fine.

              My flue is 24 inches (8inch duravent) and draws very well, so you don't need more for good draw.


              Originally posted by jcg31 View Post
              James, probalby been asked elsewhere but I can't locate it. Are there "best practice" dimensions for vent and flue"? My vent opening is 19" x 4", nearly the entire width of the arc and reduces down to accomodate an 8"x12"x24" flue. At this point (two days of curing fires) I am not particularly impressed with my draw. Certainly not the show you describe above. I am wondering if extending the flue (by adding another 24" length), reducing the size down to 8"x8" or both would help the draw. Any thoughts?

              Thanks for any help.
              Jim
              Wade Lively

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: The vent and oven draw

                Jim,
                I'd give it time. I love the physics utilized in the the last two posts, but every oven is different, if not only for the reason that the archways and vents we build are not made from a cookie cutter.

                Cool fires will put off more smoke and will not draw as well out the chimney. Deal with the smoke and the stain on your brick for the time being. Cover the brick with masking if its killing you to watch it get black. Once you get the dome to burn clear is when you will know if you need to work on your vent. If the oven is 800 degrees and your still getting smoke out the front, then you will probably want to do something.

                I built 6 X10 inches for my opening on the inside of the arch. I widened it with a grinder to about 8 X15 with a slope towards the oven openng so that smoke spilling out of the oven would be given an immediate chance to rise and move up, rather than out.
                Reality check: How's your wood? Really well cured? Wet wood produces much more smoke than seasoned.
                GJBingham
                -----------------------------------
                Everyone makes mistakes. The trick is to make mistakes when nobody is looking.

                -

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: The vent and oven draw

                  Thanks folk, I went with constricting the flue a bit. For now I just lined the 12"x8" with some Kaowool and that had an immediate and positive impact. What I will do next weekend is either install a pipe within the current system, or cut down the existing 12x8x24 flue and install an 8x8x24 in its place. Either way it will be fairly easy and cheap to fix. Thanks again for the direction!

                  Jim

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: The vent and oven draw

                    Originally posted by Dutchoven View Post
                    RC if your vent opening is indeed 7x7 you should look to reduce to a 4 inch flue...or make the vent opening larger
                    hope this helps
                    Dutch
                    This whole vent/chimney and draw thing is quite new to me. As you can see in the phote my vent area, like an inverted funnel, in my second row (which is 6.5" wide) goes from 9.3" at the bottom of the row to 6.5" at the top of the row. The support for my flue goes up another 2" and then I've added my flue liner which is 6.5" x 6.5". So far it's two feet high but I have another 2' section, Plans were to place it on top and see if there was any difference.

                    So if the bottom of the vent should be twice the top in area, should I tamper the sides of the second row so that opening is about 9" wide? If 2:1 ratio is suggested, what distance from the top to the bottom is recommended?

                    I guess not understanding all of this and flying by the seat of my pants, I'll try stuff and see what works. Any advice will be considered! Maybe the e-book should be expanded to help future(present) builders.
                    Attached Files
                    RCLake

                    "It's time to go Vertical"
                    Oven Thread

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: The vent and oven draw

                      This whole vent/chimney and draw thing is quite new to me. It was to me also when I started my oven project
                      As you can see in the phote my vent area, like an inverted funnel,...inverted funnel is exactly the idea

                      in my second row (which is 6.5" wide) goes from 9.3"...although 6.5 from 9.3 is not perfect...how wide from front to back?...is there another row of brick in front of those that you used to support the flue?
                      at the bottom of the row to 6.5" at the top of the row. The support for my flue goes up another 2" and then I've added my flue liner which is 6.5" x 6.5"....the height should not be a problem
                      confused: If 2:1 ratio is suggested, what distance from the top to the bottom is recommended?...height is not usually an issue...what the ratio creates is the physics George mentioned...Bernoulli's law...you want to cause the gases to accelerate by constricting the space...which then creates lower pressure in the flue so that the smoke and gases are virtually sucked up the flue...same principle allows planes to fly...golf balls to hook and slice...sailboats to sail into the wind...
                      I guess not understanding all of this and flying by the seat of my pants, I'll try stuff and see what works. Any advice will be considered! Maybe the e-book should be expanded to help future(present) builders....having looked at your picture pretty closely my feeling is really concurring with George and I will say I believe your oven will draw well...in a perfect system you would want a nice tight reduction in flue size...get the first flue tile on and start curing if you have not done so already...you will soon see if you need to make any adjustments before you finish


                      Hope I helped and didn't make it worse!
                      All the best wishes!
                      Dutch
                      "Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity. " Charles Mingus
                      "Build at least two brick ovens...one to make all the mistakes on and the other to be just like you dreamed of!" Dutch

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: The vent and oven draw

                        Dutch,
                        thanks for the help, I didn't know that the hook of my golf ball (I used to play a lot before I moved here) was because of a law of nature, I thought it was the quirk in my swing.
                        As soon as this weather system moves thru I'll start my fires. I see how it works, try it with the second flue system and maybe grind the bottom a little wider. I'm optomistic.
                        RCLake

                        "It's time to go Vertical"
                        Oven Thread

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: The vent and oven draw

                          Be optimistic...be confident really...I really do believe your system will work well...these ovens obtain their own personalities...your swing caused the sidespin which in turn caused the hook
                          Dutch
                          "Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity. " Charles Mingus
                          "Build at least two brick ovens...one to make all the mistakes on and the other to be just like you dreamed of!" Dutch

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: The vent and oven draw

                            Usually flipping your hands at the bottom of a swing causes a big hook. Try to tighten your wrist muscles ever so slightly as you swing through contact. Too much (not letting it go) will cause a slice.
                            G>
                            GJBingham
                            -----------------------------------
                            Everyone makes mistakes. The trick is to make mistakes when nobody is looking.

                            -

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: The vent and oven draw

                              Originally posted by gjbingham View Post
                              Usually flipping your hands at the bottom of a swing causes a big hook. Try to tighten your wrist muscles ever so slightly as you swing through contact. Too much (not letting it go) will cause a slice.
                              G>
                              Oh you mean my original baseball bat grip with the banana slice. It's just the driver that I'm never sure what is going to happen.
                              RCLake

                              "It's time to go Vertical"
                              Oven Thread

                              Comment

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