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Kansas Corner Build - Forno Bravo Forum: The Wood-Fired Oven Community

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Kansas Corner Build

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  • Kansas Corner Build

    Hi all!

    First off, I'd like to say thank you to FB for this outstanding forum. I'd also like to thank those who have continued to answer questions years after their builds were complete. It is inspiring to see the cumulative effects of the 'minor' innovations. You guys are producing some gorgeous work!

    My WBO was designed into the corner of a stone patio project I had going as an afterthought. I didn't give the hearth planning enough thought because there were so many moving parts to this project. I would like to build a 42" oven. The dimensions all worked in my head until I actually drew it out tonight. I didn't add the extra 9" to the outside edge of the dome. All my measurements were taken based on 42" instead of 51". Total rookie mistake!

    So, my question is what would you all do in my situation? The slab isn't poured yet. I can extend the slab over the back side of the patio frame, but I don't know yet what I would do to veneer the concrete. I could also build a really short oven landing but I think I would regret that.

    Not sure what to do here. I am trying to follow the guidelines as posted at http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/f6/m...earth-657.html. Which means 42" floor + 9" walls + 6" vent floor + 5" rear insulation + 5" 1wall + 12" landing.

    Sorry for the quick hand drawings. I'm having someone pour the slab on Thursday and need to know what to tell him. I'd pour it myself, but I'm running out of Fall days to work.

    In case it isn't obvious, the drawing shows the top down view. The pictures show the corner where the oven will be built.

    Casey
    Attached Files

  • #2
    Re: Kansas Corner Build

    Nice looking setup for your outdoor kitchen. If you extend out to the back and sides for the top slab 8"-10" to accommodate the 42" design (total 51" radius) what you have should provide enough base support...as long as you put in adequate rebar into the slab top. I agree with you that sacrificing the landing area is not an option. If the accommodation for the 51" dome footprint isn't something you want to frame/form up, then do you need to have the larger oven or can you scale it down to fit your entertaining "estimates"?

    If you want that 42" WFO, then extending out the back with the top slab will work just fine. It will give you some added overhang in the back, but so what? Remember to either put in center post/beam support for your slab pour since it is going to be quite a load until it sets and takes up its own weight/support.
    Mike Stansbury - The Traveling Loafer
    Roseburg, Oregon ( www.sablesprings.com )

    Photo albums
    (working on restoration after web site upgrade )

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    • #3
      Re: Kansas Corner Build

      Thanks for the response, Mike. It has been a big project that I guess just needed the added complexity of a hand built oven.

      I think you're exactly right about the 'so what'. The slab will be 4" just like the other wall blocks so it won't look too out of place. We are going to put granite around the green egg and gas grill so I've also been toying with the idea of bringing an arc of granite out in front of the WFO for the landing. I'm going to get out there with a tape tonight to see how the dimensions work out.

      I've not historically been good about documenting projects like this, but it looks like the threads remain useful to new builders long after the building is complete. I'll try to keep posting as things come together.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Kansas Corner Build

        Are you planning an igloo or an oven house? For an oven house, your dimensions seem small. 3" for insulation each side, plus another 4" each side for an oven house for a total of 14". Not sure how much more the stucco on an igloo adds, but I imagine it's at least 2" per side beyond the insulation.

        You might think about a slightly smaller oven - say 39"

        Your stand is interesting. Haven't seen those type of blocks used. Did you mortar them together?
        My build progress
        My WFO Journal on Facebook
        My dome spreadsheet calculator

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Kansas Corner Build

          Very nice looking setup saggy.
          "Made are tools, and born are hands"--William Blake, 1757-1827

          Picasa photo library:

          https://picasaweb.google.com/1043493...lleryMay192012

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Kansas Corner Build

            Thanks guys! I am planning an oven house. And I think you're right, deejayoh. I'll probably have to scale back to 38" or 39". Not a big deal. I don't really think I'll be able to tell a difference between that and 42". I just want to make the oven as big as possible.

            The stand is actually fastened with masonry adhesive. The wall on the back side stands about 6'. I have used these blocks for walls and patios before. They hold up very well. I actually had to pry part of my patio frame apart this weekend to extend it out 2 feet. The adhesive stuck so well that the concrete pulled off the stones when they separated.

            My patio floor is now done. The slab is poured. The concrete forms come off the slab today. I guess my next step is to lay out my floor on top of the slab?

            Also, the ceramic fiber insulation I got to go under the floor came in 1'x3'x2" sheets. I have enough to go 4" thick. Is it worth it to do that?

            I am venturing outside of my comfort zone at this point. Everything that I have done so far on this project I have done a couple times in the past. Building the oven and mortaring the house together are completely new to me!

            Here are a couple pictures of the progress.
            Attached Files

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Kansas Corner Build

              Hey Saggy
              That is great looking setup you have there. One comment though and i hope the others will chime in on this. The arch you have is going to have to carry a lot of weight(concrete base, dome brick, floor brick, house, etc.) The arch has a wide opening span and is thin in the top and middle. you appear to have some buttress support from the adjoining walls that will help. Ask the guy doing the concrete what he thinks as well. I can't see if you have steel in there or not. You might want to support that with some heavy angle steel inside of the arch if you can or maybe i just cant see it, but you definitely dont want a failure there.
              Texman
              My Progress:
              http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/f8/t...ild-17324.html

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Kansas Corner Build

                Thanks, Texman. I'm actually going to get an opinion (not formal analysis) from an engineer before I go any further. I THINK everything is sound with the arch. Most of the load is carried by the frame wall at either side of the arch. The slab is 4" thick and reinforced with a 6" rebar mesh so even if the arch falls (I hate even typing that) I THINK the slab could span the gap.

                But, like I said, guessing won't cut it here. If I'm told I need to reinforce it then it gets reinforced.

                Thanks for the input.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Kansas Corner Build

                  Good to hear. I think you are right that the slab will carry the load with proper reinforcement, but support that arch until the slab sets for sure. Looking forward to your build. The corner builds look great i think, but they keep you thinking all the time.
                  Tracy
                  My Progress:
                  http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/f8/t...ild-17324.html

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Kansas Corner Build

                    I've been perusing your build page, Tracy. Very nice! It's funny; your first post regarding the floor is almost exactly where I am at. Your descriptions of the problems you encountered and how you fixed them are informative. I'll be referring to your build a lot in the coming weeks.

                    What was the final IT design you settled on? It looks like you went through several iterations.

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                    • #11
                      Re: Kansas Corner Build

                      Glad that helped. The board unevenness seemed like a "big" deal at the time, but it wasn't. All this is so new when you get started and you plan and plan and then get a curve ball like that board that you cant plan for and have to adapt.
                      My IT was a work in process for sure. I had two problems that caused issues:
                      1. the brick must be centered in the clamp. (ie. The face pointing at the center of your oven floor) Look at post #36 in my thread, that was version 3.0, the final. 2. my original angle iron was too wide for the narrow bricks as you get around course 6. another issue that arose that i could have easily prevented, the caster i used for my pivot became locked by dried mortar and brick dust at the last few courses and was very stiff. Just cover it with tape or something to prevent. Once that IT is set, it is going to be there a while and you do not want it shifting from your setup.
                      I think i could write a book on the IT at this point, you learn so much actually doing the build. That IT is good to maybe 39" but could be modified with a longer piece of all thread. If you are interested in it, let me know and we can arrange shipping. It is a good tool after all the tweaks it went through, but not perfect. I would not even try a build without an IT or a form of some kind.
                      Tracy
                      My Progress:
                      http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/f8/t...ild-17324.html

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Kansas Corner Build

                        You know, I intended to build my own. But to use one that has already successfully built a dome would save a lot of tinkering time. I may be a fool, but I think I am going to try to get this knocked out before Winter shuts me down. Time is something I have very little of at this point. I'll send you a private message to get in touch.

                        And I really appreciate the offer!

                        By the way, did the deejayoh's spreadsheet at http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/f28/...tor-18131.html exist when you got started? Would it have been helpful to use it for your cuts or did it go quicker to measure and cut each course?

                        Thanks,
                        Casey

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Kansas Corner Build

                          Saggy
                          Use the calculator. It wasn't out there when i was building and i wish it was. But, expect some adjustments also. Get your measurements and cut 3 or four bricks at a time and watch how they are fitting as you mortar and avoid the vertical joints from lining up. You may have to tweak your cuts as you go. Mortar gaps are not perfect and will cause variance from the measurements and even with the measurements, perfect cuts are a challenge. The calcs really help to have common size bricks for each course and avoid the chips (small bricks). I just eyeballed the bevel side cuts using brick slivers as a guide for the brick because the angle is so small. I know the freeze is bad for wet mortar and hard on the hands, but i think you can work in the winter and blanket your work to keep from freezing and get some done on the warm days we get.
                          tracy
                          My Progress:
                          http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/f8/t...ild-17324.html

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Kansas Corner Build

                            The bevel cuts are on the top and bottom, correct? The cuts to the sides are the most dramatic? It almost looks like it would be just as easy, and would fit as well, to not make the top and bottom bevel cuts and fill the gaps with mortar. I'm sure that will become more clear after I set my third course or so.

                            But do I have this right? There are 4 cuts per brick per course. The top and bottom cuts are shallow and allow the bricks to make the curved transition to the top of the dome. And the side cuts are steeper cuts which allow the bricks to make the transition laterally around the dome. All 4 types of cut taper from small toward the dome's interior to large toward the exterior. I seem to recall reading about a fifth cut but I can't think what that would accomplish.

                            Casey

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Kansas Corner Build

                              Casey,

                              Chiming in, you can combine a taper and bevel cut together with shims or a jig. There are lot of different variations out there. Here is an example I used on my build. Good luck.
                              Attached Files
                              Russell

                              Link to my Picasa Album
                              https://plus.google.com/photos/10287...21083003687777

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