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What about using starch based packing peanuts for insulation instead of vermiculite? - Forno Bravo Forum: The Wood-Fired Oven Community

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What about using starch based packing peanuts for insulation instead of vermiculite?

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  • What about using starch based packing peanuts for insulation instead of vermiculite?

    What about using starch based packing peanuts for insulation instead of vermiculite?

    You are only after trapping in the air, if the peanuts burn off the air is atill trapped in a matrix of portland cement.
    You can eat the peanuts so if the do burn off they wont harm the oven.

    The though occurred to me after seeing someone else in the build phase who has difficulty accessing vermiculite.



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  • #2
    Re: What about using starch based packing peanuts for insulation instead of vermiculi

    In the old times people also used straw so in a way it will work. It will not work as good as vermiculite though. One of the key things to the insulational properties is not just air, but as small air pockets as possible. The smaller the air pockets, the better. If they peanuts burn away, you will have big air pockets.

    How about using Expanded clay aggregate. They are a good alternative. On some of the build video's by Italian masters I have seen them use it and here I have a "wood fired oven shop" that also swears by them.

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    • #3
      Re: What about using starch based packing peanuts for insulation instead of vermiculi

      Originally posted by nachtwacht View Post

      How about using Expanded clay aggregate.
      Thats fine too, I was thinking more along the lines of stuff ppl could make for themselves.
      The English language was invented by people who couldnt spell.

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      • #4
        Re: What about using starch based packing peanuts for insulation instead of vermiculi

        Gudday
        Yes for the same reason I thought at one stage Dolomite (kitty litter) might be the GO. But after soaking it in water it floated real well for a while then sank to the bottom and broke down and I got a real nice clay layer
        Regards dave
        Measure twice
        Cut once
        Fit in position with largest hammer

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        • #5
          Re: What about using starch based packing peanuts for insulation instead of vermiculi

          Originally posted by cobblerdave View Post
          Gudday
          Yes for the same reason I thought at one stage Dolomite (kitty litter) might be the GO. But after soaking it in water it floated real well for a while then sank to the bottom and broke down and I got a real nice clay layer
          Regards dave
          Why did you float it in water?
          If anything the water would be in contact for a very short time if mixed in a slurry with cement, cement starts the setting process almost straight from the start.
          The English language was invented by people who couldnt spell.

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          • #6
            Re: What about using starch based packing peanuts for insulation instead of vermiculi

            You probably allready bumped into the following idea since I now see that you have >3000 posts but I remember seeing someone do a posting about making foam here on the forum. With that he created his own "airated concrete". No idea anymore how succesfull he was.

            If you want small air pockets, how about eggwhite? Mix it up, bake it, break it and use it in your concrete mix.

            It is something you can make for yourself but I doubt that it would be any better than using straw.

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            • #7
              Re: What about using starch based packing peanuts for insulation instead of vermiculi

              Originally posted by nachtwacht View Post
              You probably allready bumped into the following idea since I now see that you have >3000 posts but I remember seeing someone do a posting about making foam here on the forum. With that he created his own "airated concrete".
              The thread seemed to just end with no conclusion?
              The English language was invented by people who couldnt spell.

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              • #8
                Re: What about using starch based packing peanuts for insulation instead of vermiculi

                Originally posted by nachtwacht View Post
                You probably allready bumped into the following idea since I now see that you have >3000 posts but I remember seeing someone do a posting about making foam here on the forum. With that he created his own "airated concrete".
                The thread seemed to just end with no conclusion?

                There must be a way for ppl with little resources to make insulation?
                The English language was invented by people who couldnt spell.

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                • #9
                  Re: What about using starch based packing peanuts for insulation instead of vermiculi

                  Originally posted by nachtwacht View Post
                  You probably allready bumped into the following idea since I now see that you have >3000 posts but I remember seeing someone do a posting about making foam here on the forum. With that he created his own "airated concrete". No idea anymore how succesfull he was.
                  Yeah, that was me, I use foam all the time. Seems no one else has followed suit with the idea. It's a better insulator than vermicrete and cheaper too. I use it 50/50 with vermicrete now.

                  /Users/davespizzaovens/Downloads/foam-concrete-18447.html
                  Last edited by david s; 09-15-2013, 03:41 AM.
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                  • #10
                    Re: What about using starch based packing peanuts for insulation instead of vermiculi

                    Gudday Davids
                    Yes I followed that post
                    Question: why 50/50?
                    Regards dave
                    Measure twice
                    Cut once
                    Fit in position with largest hammer

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                    • #11
                      Re: What about using starch based packing peanuts for insulation instead of vermiculi

                      I just think it gives me a better mix. the stuff is really fluid without the vermiculite, but with the vermiculite it makes it more like a thick soup and easier to level. I use a drill with a stirrer attachment for mixing. Folding in the foam is a little difficult, like folding in egg whites.

                      Results of testing this stuff on attach doc.
                      Attached Files
                      Last edited by david s; 09-15-2013, 04:00 AM.
                      Kindled with zeal and fired with passion.

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                      • #12
                        Re: What about using starch based packing peanuts for insulation instead of vermiculi

                        Originally posted by brickie in oz View Post
                        Why did you float it in water?
                        If anything the water would be in contact for a very short time if mixed in a slurry with cement, cement starts the setting process almost straight from the start.
                        Gudday
                        Pearlite,vermiculite,pumice,ceramic fibre board etc have a glass like structure. Doesn't melt in water. The tiny air bubbles are left intact.
                        If the water effect those tiny air bubbles the effectiveness of the insulation degrades
                        Regards dave
                        Measure twice
                        Cut once
                        Fit in position with largest hammer

                        My Build
                        http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/f51/...ild-14444.html
                        My Door
                        http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/f28/...ock-17190.html

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: What about using starch based packing peanuts for insulation instead of vermiculi

                          Originally posted by nachtwacht View Post
                          In the old times people also used straw so in a way it will work. It will not work as good as vermiculite though. One of the key things to the insulational properties is not just air, but as small air pockets as possible. The smaller the air pockets, the better. If they peanuts burn away, you will have big air pockets.

                          How about using Expanded clay aggregate. They are a good alternative. On some of the build video's by Italian masters I have seen them use it and here I have a "wood fired oven shop" that also swears by them.
                          Lightweight expanded clay aggregate (LECA) is great stuff. I have recently started using some for certan applications. It is way denser and therefore presumably less insulating than perlite or vermiculite. It is however much stronger, so if you are after an insulator that has more strength then this is great stuff. It's also about double the price of perlite or vermiculite, for me at least, so this is another consideration.
                          Last edited by david s; 09-15-2013, 04:10 AM.
                          Kindled with zeal and fired with passion.

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                          • #14
                            Re: What about using starch based packing peanuts for insulation instead of vermiculi

                            Originally posted by david s View Post
                            Lightweight expanded clay aggregate (LECA) is great stuff. I have recently started using some for certan applications. It is way denser and therefore presumably less insulating than perlite or vermiculite. It is however much stronger, so if you are after an insulator that has more strength then this is great stuff. It's also about double the price of perlite or vermiculite, for me at least, so this is another consideration.
                            Gudday
                            The materials for making pearlite, vermiculite , ceramic board are non renewable resources. It certainly has a place
                            Regards dave
                            Measure twice
                            Cut once
                            Fit in position with largest hammer

                            My Build
                            http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/f51/...ild-14444.html
                            My Door
                            http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/f28/...ock-17190.html

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: What about using starch based packing peanuts for insulation instead of vermiculi

                              Originally posted by cobblerdave View Post
                              Gudday
                              The materials for making pearlite, vermiculite , ceramic board are non renewable resources. It certainly has a place
                              Regards dave
                              It still takes tons of fossil fuel energy to heat perlite, vermiculite or expanded clay to the temperatures required in the processing.Straw with just enough slip (liquid clay mixture) is still probably the most sustainable solution.
                              Kindled with zeal and fired with passion.

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