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Question about insulation - Forno Bravo Forum: The Wood-Fired Oven Community

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  • Question about insulation

    Are there any other high temperature insulation blankets that are suitable for dome insulation other than ceramic fiber or CalSil? The shipping costs are what is preventing me from going forward with a purchase right away because I cannot find anything locally. I have spent weeks trying to find an alternative or a nearby supplier and I can't find anything. I know that I can use vermicrete, but was trying to go the easy route in terms of installation as well as just wanting to use a superior product. Any ideas?

  • #2
    Re: Question about insulation

    Yes try these guys


    Harbison-Walker Refractories
    2233 Interstate North Dr # F
    Charlotte, NC 28206-1099
    (704) 599-6540

    I got all my supplies from the Salem VA office and they are great to work with.

    Let me know how they work for you.

    Faith

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Question about insulation

      For my first oven I used fiberglass roof insulating batts and when I finally pulled the oven apart there was no visible sign of any degradation, although others have reported that the binder sometimes burns. Maybe depends on the brand. Because the stuff is so light and fluffy it easily compresses which simply reduces it's insulating value. If you want to save money you could try a 2" layer of vermiculite, followed by a layer outside that of fiberglass insulation batt. The vermicrete layer should be enough to reduce any heat hitting the fiberglass. I think this would be ok for an enclosure but you still have the problem of the fiberglass wanting to compress if you render/stucco against it for an igloo style.
      Kindled with zeal and fired with passion.

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      • #4
        Re: Question about insulation

        Yes try these guys
        Harbison-Walker Refractories
        As a note, H-W local offices vary greatly in how consumer/oven builder friendly they are. It's worth calling, yours might be great.
        My geodesic oven project: part 1, part 2

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Question about insulation

          Thanks guys, I will take a look at all these. I also found a Denmark company called Skamol that has a Charlotte office and will see if they can help too.

          Has anyone ever heard of someone using closed cell, 2lb density spray polyurethane foam insulation? I used to sell this stuff awhile back and remember a guy taking a blow torch to it and it held up wonderfully. I don't know if this would hold up over several years of use though. This was only to show me that it was virtually fireproof in the event of a house fire.

          I was just wondering. It probably isn't a cost-effective method even if it does work, but it came to mind as something that might work well.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Question about insulation

            Faith, I just called HW in Charlotte. They had a fair price for the ceramic fiber board and a not so friendly price for the blanket.

            Ceramic Fiber Board: 2" x 12" x 36" came in 8 pieces per box which was 24 sf...this came to $121.05...seems like it is way more than I need but maybe I can find other ways to use it.

            Ceramic Fiber Blanket: 1" x 24" x 25' Roll was $4.37/sf or $218...WAY more than it would cost to get FB blanket + shipping to Charlotte.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Question about insulation

              I don't know. I just checked and it was going to be $300+ to ship fb blanket to WA state. The Harbinson etc. blanket and board was within $20 in Seattle when I called for a price.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Question about insulation

                Well when I called my guys and they quoted me a price... there was some miss communication that went on ...well long story short they sold me the Ceramic Blanket for about half price. I was pleased that they stuck to their quote even when they took a loss for the material.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Question about insulation

                  Santino,

                  I bought the same 24sq' box of 2"x12"x36" boards (8) from the Harbison Walker (ANH Refractories) in Los Angeles. Don't know the size of your oven, but after careful measuring I had just enough to cover a circle 53" in diameter (and the landing area) and have one board left for a door.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Question about insulation

                    I'm building a 36" dome. I am assuming that the HW box we're talking about would be enough for this?

                    The math I've done tells me I can either install the HW board for $120 and practically no labor or wait time or install Vermicrete for about $42 and a lot more of my time and possibly my mistakes. I'm trying to figure out which one makes the most sense. However, if you feel I'll have enough leftover to insulate my door, then I'm pretty positive I'm going to get the HW board.

                    Going by the price of the dome insulation, for my situation right now (which is me being laid off at the moment), I think I'm going to go with 6" of vermicrete for the dome and then stucco over that. The price difference between the blanket and the vermicrete is about $200 by my calculations.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Question about insulation

                      Hi Santino,

                      Don't worry about mistakes with vermicrete. It's hardly a problem to work with. Just don't tamp it too hard, you don't want to compact it. And try to avoid using too much water since too much can wash the Portland cement off the particles of vermiculite. Lots of builders have used it with good success.

                      Cheers,
                      Bob

                      Here is the link to my oven number 1 construction photos!

                      Here is the link to my oven number 2 construction photos!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Question about insulation

                        If my math skills are correct the area insulation is around 11-13sq ft. (pi x r squared). The area of your vent landing is at most 2-3 square feet. The HW board I was quoted was
                        2" x 12" x 36" or 3 sq ft each. They come in a box of 8 for $104.60 (Seattle Price) Unless I am completely screwed up in the way I do math, which is entirely possible, I think that one box should be more than plenty to take care of your oven. I suspect that if you have leftover someone on the forum might take it off your hands.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Question about insulation

                          Faith, just wanted to let you know I picked up my ceramic fiber board today from HW in Charlotte and the guy knew who you were! Wish I could remember his name, but he mentioned he knew of a woman in VA that built a pizza oven and bought their product out of Salem, VA. I said, "That's who told me to call you guys!" Small world...Thanks for letting me know about them.

                          On a side note, one of the guys there showed me a bulk ceramic fiber product that looked like cotton candy. He told me that maybe I could use it instead of the blanket. It was around $79 for a 25 lb box. Do you know anything about this product?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Question about insulation

                            So, why does the price vary so wildly. I just called the HW office in CT. Quoted a price around $200 for a 1"x24"x25' blanket and almost $30 a sqft for board! how is it that some people are sourcing this for such a low price?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Question about insulation

                              Hi jatsrt,

                              Good question. Ask them for a price list.

                              You can have FB blanket and board shipped for way less than what they quoted.

                              Contact "Thermal Ceramics" and ask them about their blanket and board. You should be able to Google for their address.

                              Best of luck,
                              Bob

                              Here is the link to my oven number 1 construction photos!

                              Here is the link to my oven number 2 construction photos!

                              Comment

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