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Posts to support roof

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  • Posts to support roof

    This may be a hard question to ask or answer without pictures, but I will see what I can describe with words. This is not an oven roof question, but rather an outdoor kitchen roof question, and this seems like the most likely place to post it.

    The outdoor kitchen I am planning next to my pool, will have to have a slab foundation given the clay soils in North Texas. I will likely build an oven first, on a separate but connecting slab, just because I want to start on my oven, but ultimately they will be all one, or at least be adjacent.

    The entire area must be roofed, and indeed that is the only reason I am concerned about this question at all, because creating shade in my west facing Texas back yard is a priority for next summer, since we have no other source of shade.

    So get to the question Travis and tell us about your plans later!

    My roof supports will be 4x4 or larger posts/beams of Cedar most likely. Perhaps treated pine if I will eventually put stone around them, cedar if I leave them as is.

    My question is, if I pour a slab first, then put the roof supports up later, how do I attach them to the slab? I can sink them in the ground before I pour the slab around them, I can put big pieces of allthread in the slab then attach steel things to those bolts to secure the bottoms of the posts, or there may be other ideas I am not thinking about.

    My biggest concern is that no side of this structure will have a solid wall, so it is basically a bunch of sticks holding up a roof structure in windy and stormy north Texas.

    If anybody has done something similar and has ideas, regrets, or pictures of what worked for them I would be very appreciative!

    It seems to me like the best solution is to concrete them into the ground, like I did the pole barn I build, but I would prefer to pour the slabs as a single unit, then add them later.

    Thanks,
    Travis

  • #2
    Re: Posts to support roof

    Hi Travis,
    I am a Carpenter by trade. If I were you I would try & plan where I wanted to put the posts (supports) & put them in now. You could use stirrups Pryda - Timber Connectors
    & cement them in, or cement the posts in. with the stirrups tho the structure isnt as strong as there is a pivot point just above the ground. (cemented posts are a stronger option.
    with the cemented in post option you MUST paint the post fully where it will be in the cement, otherwise you can risk rotting. (treated timber would be the way to go there)

    hope this helps

    Mike
    who are these children? & why are they calling me dad?

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Posts to support roof

      Thanks Mike. I kinda knew the ultimate answer was to poke them in the ground first. Sealing them will be an issue if they are not treated, like if I want cedar. I have thought about stirrups, but am concerned, as you pointed out, that all forces will be focused at the pivot just above the slab.

      I really appreciate your input, and if I go with cedar, do you have any suggestions on how I can seal it to protect it from water wicking though the subsoil concreate that will surround it?

      Thanks,
      Travis

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Posts to support roof

        Originally posted by Knackers View Post
        Hi Travis,
        I am a Carpenter by trade. If I were you I would try & plan where I wanted to put the posts (supports) & put them in now. You could use stirrups Pryda - Timber Connectors
        & cement them in, or cement the posts in. with the stirrups tho the structure isnt as strong as there is a pivot point just above the ground. (cemented posts are a stronger option.
        with the cemented in post option you MUST paint the post fully where it will be in the cement, otherwise you can risk rotting. (treated timber would be the way to go there)

        hope this helps

        Mike
        T'nT,
        To follow up - the posts of my roof are fixed using something along the lines of these on Pryda site above.
        W.
        "Carpe diem." - Fish of the Day (The Uxbridge English Dictionary)

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Posts to support roof

          Travis,
          I agree with Mike and use treated pine timber (or other suitable but 'treated timber')
          There are also other alternatives. If you are planning on putting stone around your posts, then look at galvanised steel posts which would be much stronger and if adequate cross section and thickness (also deep in the ground) you will be less likely to need bracing.
          Alternative #2 is to concrete into the slab, suitable steel sleeves that will accommodate your timber posts which could be secured into them to prevent 'uplifting' should you include a solid roof.

          Neill
          Prevention is better than cure, - do it right the first time!

          The more I learn, the more I realise how little I know


          Neillís Pompeiii #1
          http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/f8/n...-1-a-2005.html
          Neillís kitchen underway
          http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/f35/...rway-4591.html

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Posts to support roof

            Thanks Neil,

            I thinking now of using treated pine 4x4 posts sunk into concrete 4 ft or so in the ground, like I did for a barn I built a few years ago, and then facing them above ground with western red cedar to make them look like cedar beams. I am pretty sure that will work. I have seen faux beams built up before and if you are carefull to match lumber they can look like real beams. Everything other than the posts, I will use real cedar.

            I managed to upload an avatar that I will keep updated as my pizza oven/kitchen progresses. Nothing there yet except the spa but now that it is getting cooler here and the pool is too cold, the spa is still fantastic

            Travis

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Posts to support roof

              Don't use 4x4"'s especially is it's large build. You have this huge nice overhang or structure with wimpy post.... Use atleast 6x6's or even 8x8's they are worth the extra cost.

              I built a pergola my self and I used 8x8's and I do not regret them at all.
              I set them in the ground 2' deep then concreted and YES it was very hard to dig that deep here in Rockwall, Texas.. It's all cedar wood, and stained a natural color. Everyone always says "I'm glad you used the big post" it makes a statment in the build.



              Thanks
              B
              Attached Files

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              • #8
                Re: Posts to support roof

                Travis,

                Two things:

                1) I did something exactly like this and I used steel. I didn't think wood would last as long as my brick project and I did't have room for wood. That is a 1 1/2 x 3/4 inch piece of steel is as stong as a 2x6 doug fur. The poles, of course, were larger. Most importantly, my son has a welder and knows how to use it.

                2) I poured the entire foundation as one slab because I faced my outdoor kitchen with a continuous wall of bricks, I was afraid that if there were seams in the foundation, and I layed a brick wall over those seams, the wall might crack at those spots if the seperate foundation pieces settled even a tiny bit differently.

                dusty

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                • #9
                  Re: Posts to support roof

                  @Rockwall - duh I used either 6x6 or 6x8 treated posts for the barn I built, not 4x4s. Brain dead there. It was a 24x40' barn!

                  I love the big wrc beams, and that is what I had in mind at the beginning of this thread, but now I am concerned about burying them, in so far as how long they will last. Did you seal or treat the buried portions of your posts?

                  @Dusty - Very good point about the slab seams and walls that may cross them. I will indeed have stone walls that will cross two lines that I was considering doing as seperate pours. I still might do so, but it would seem that a vertical expansion joint in any way that crosses the joint between the slabs would have to be considered.

                  Thanks for all the comments,
                  Travis

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Posts to support roof

                    Yes, the bottom was sealed before I installed the post ground.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Posts to support roof

                      Any tips on what you used to seal them with? I would much rather do that than use treated pine and try to disguise it as a cedar post!

                      Thanks,
                      Travis

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Posts to support roof

                        I just used some sealer/stain from Home Depot, not quite clear but with a slight color added. I wanted to keep the cedar look.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Posts to support roof

                          Suggestion

                          Dig a hole for each post about 2 foot square by 2 foot deep.

                          drive a steel peg (reo bar) to set height about 6 inch above bottom of hole and pour concrete up to top of pin.

                          Use a steel post 4" x 4" (RHS) with a 6" plate to top and bottom and concrete in to ground level.

                          Will not move and will support whatever superstructure you want to build on it.

                          I have used this several times and haven't lost one in a storm yet.

                          regards

                          Dave Ly

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Posts to support roof

                            "Use a steel post 4" x 4" (RHS) with a 6" plate to top and bottom and concrete in to ground level."

                            I second the use of steel posts. They are also more fireproof, which is always a consideration for anything built near a wood fired oven.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Posts to support roof

                              Having been a builder for longer than I want to admit (now trying to get a woodfired pizza place off the ground) I would go with the 8x8. The stirrup type hardware should work fine especially if you use the type cast into the concrete and then the post is bolted in with 5/8" bolts. Just make sure to put a footing under each post.

                              Build a large 2 story obsevation deck for a tennis club on the north shore of Lake Ponchartrain in LA using this method. We did add a grade beam between everyother footing far as I know it's still there.

                              If you use the cedar posts below grade you can treat them with good old roofing tar. Just make sure to set them on a concrete pill (available at most builders supplies) Thne you can pour your slab around them in a single pour.

                              Tried to attach a photo of the observation deck not sure if it worked
                              Attached Files

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