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UK builders - planning permission/smoke control areas? - Forno Bravo Forum: The Wood-Fired Oven Community

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UK builders - planning permission/smoke control areas?

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  • UK builders - planning permission/smoke control areas?

    For all UK based builders...

    Are you in a smoke control area?

    Also, did you need to apply for planning permission?

    I read that it is illegal to emit smoke from a 'building/chimney/furnace' if in a smoke control area.

    PdD

  • #2
    Re: UK builders - planning permission/smoke control areas?

    Please let us know what you find out about the smoke control area: I know that there are "smoke free" solid fuels, like anthracite briquettes, that you could burn in a grate.

    The good news is that once you get your oven up to temperature, wood just bursts into flame, and burns brightly and quickly, with almost no smoke. The trick is to get your oven up to white.
    My geodesic oven project: part 1, part 2

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: UK builders - planning permission/smoke control areas?

      I know I should have looked into this in more depth before, but that's how I am - a bit disorganised.

      I think there is an offence committed if you cause smoke to be emitted from a chimney on a building. My 'chimney' is going to be on a 'building', so if I deal with the 'smoke' maybe I shouldn't worry.

      I'm obviously at the stage of finding more out about fuels - I didn't know for example that wood would catch fire instantly when lobbed into hgh heat.

      Someone else told me not to start a fire with paper, so maybe those little white fire starters is what I can use.

      PdD

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: UK builders - planning permission/smoke control areas?

        There's some useful info at the following website :

        Smoke Control Areas

        Basically, any furnace, chimney etc must not emit smoke if it is within a smoke control area, enless it is an exempted appliance (one which has been approved as being able to burn inherently smoky materials without the release of smoke - this is unlikely to apply to a home built oven) or is using an exempt fuel (ie an approved smokeless fuel). The exemptions from the Clean Air Act are set out in law, so there is no ambiguity whether a particular oven or fuel is approved or not.

        Hope this helps, though it may not be exactly what you wanted to hear.

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        • #5
          Re: UK builders - planning permission/smoke control areas?

          So the worse case scenario is, apart from being fined £1000 and being ordered to pull my work down, is that I can only burn a smokeless fuel?

          I can envisage only burning coal (anthracite) in my oven, not wood.



          Maybe I should just get a chimenea and settle for some toast on that instead.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: UK builders - planning permission/smoke control areas?

            This is a quote from Smoke Control Areas posted above, sounds like a WFO would fall under this if fire was properly maintained and good seasoned wood was used. Have to ask questions to those that give the permits.

            Exempt appliances
            Exempt appliances are appliances (ovens, wood burners and stoves) which have been exempted by Statutory Instruments (Orders) under the Clean Air Act 1993 or Clean Air (Northern Ireland) Order 1981. These have passed tests to confirm that they are capable of burning an unauthorised or inherently smoky solid fuel without emitting smoke.
            Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste
            like chicken...



            My 44" oven in progress...
            __________________________
            http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/f6/s...ally-6361.html

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            • #7
              Re: UK builders - planning permission/smoke control areas?

              I think the problem will arise becasue my oven is not an approved oven, although it is an 'oven'.

              But yes, you're correct - I ought to be asking the town hall about this, the finer detail.

              PdD

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: UK builders - planning permission/smoke control areas?

                You are correct, the approvals are passed in law, for example this piece of legislation lists a load that have passed the appropriate tests (whatever they are!). The second link is the explanatory memorandum which may provide a little more clarity.

                The Smoke Control Areas (Exempted Fireplaces) (England) Order 2006
                http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/em2006/uksiem_20061152_en.pdf

                You can see how prescriptive the legislation is - specific models of oven/boiler are listed, rather than more generic types.

                A word of caution though, if you contact the council directly to obtain further information, it will be difficult to plead ignorance in the future should you need to do so.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: UK builders - planning permission/smoke control areas?

                  It may be time to move........

                  It might be worth it!
                  My thread:
                  http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/f8/d...ress-2476.html
                  My costs:
                  http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?k...Xr0fvgxuh4s7Hw
                  My pics:
                  http://picasaweb.google.com/dawatsonator

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: UK builders - planning permission/smoke control areas?

                    Originally posted by Faz View Post
                    You are correct, the approvals are passed in law, for example this piece of legislation lists a load that have passed the appropriate tests (whatever they are!). The second link is the explanatory memorandum which may provide a little more clarity.

                    The Smoke Control Areas (Exempted Fireplaces) (England) Order 2006
                    http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/em2006/uksiem_20061152_en.pdf

                    You can see how prescriptive the legislation is - specific models of oven/boiler are listed, rather than more generic types.

                    A word of caution though, if you contact the council directly to obtain further information, it will be difficult to plead ignorance in the future should you need to do so.
                    I have always thought it better in life to be as upfront as possible with authority, and this is no different.

                    I did ring the council pollution control today and recieved a pretty positive response from the person on the end of the line - I showed my by now considerable knowledge of the law and the steps I am prepared to take to ameliorate the effects of any fire I have/ showed concern fot eh neighbours etc.

                    Said person on the phone said that they would ask further in their office tomorrow and get back to me to clarify.

                    So it's fingers crossed at the moment.


                    PdD

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: UK builders - planning permission/smoke control areas?

                      Ok, here's the word from the horse's mouth...

                      The interpretation of t the fact that the Clean Air Act by my local authority is that:

                      My wfo is not going to contravene the Act! Ah ha!!! Big smiles to-day. Good news.

                      Ok, this mut be tempered by the fact that the Environmental Protection Act will affect me if I so much as get a complaint from anyone (neighbours).

                      So now the game is to be a canny firelighter and get it right pretty much first time.

                      I have now moved on to put the vermiculite layer on my oven full of hope. But I do have to do some serious thinking about a chimney, and maybe even routing errant smoke elsewhere.

                      If anyone wants to know, the local authority are interested in chimneys in buildings that are occupied - either industrial or domestic. The Clean Air Act (England) appears not to apply to outside fires, certainly not BBQs, chimeneas, bonfires etc.

                      Thanks for everyone who took an interest and good luck if you are in a Smoke Control Area in the UK and want to do a wfo.

                      PdD

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: UK builders - planning permission/smoke control areas?

                        I have a customer who lives in the north end of London, in a near-suburban area, and he says that at Christmastime, they sell bags of coal in the petrol stations, which people burn in their open grates, it's a holiday tradition. So clearly there are exceptions to the no-smoke rules.
                        My geodesic oven project: part 1, part 2

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: UK builders - planning permission/smoke control areas?

                          Yes, people do burn small amounts in thier fireplaces when they shuoldn't, but it's so minimal that i doubt anyone's bothered.

                          What can really upset people is the regular burning of rubbish, particularly plastics, rubber etc. When done out in the open this contravenes the envrionmental protection act, but if done in a fireplace in a building contravenes the Clean Air Act.

                          Fire management is going to very important in my case, at least.

                          PdD

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: UK builders - planning permission/smoke control areas?

                            As ever, the devil is in the detail! The Clean Air Act states :

                            Prohibition of dark smoke from chimneys
                            (1) Dark smoke shall not be emitted from a chimney of any building, and if, on any day, dark smoke is so emitted, the occupier of the building shall be guilty of an offence.
                            (2) Dark smoke shall not be emitted from a chimney (not being a chimney of a building) which serves the furnace of any fixed boiler or industrial plant, and if, on any day, dark smoke is so emitted, the person having possession of the boiler or plant shall be guilty of an offence.


                            So as a WFO is not a building and neither does its chimney serve a furnace of a fixed boiler or industrial plant (unless you intend to make industrial amounts of pizzas ha ha!).

                            The Environmental Protection Act contains the offence of statutory nuisance, which as far as smoke is concerned is helpfully defined as

                            (b) smoke emitted from premises so as to be prejudicial to health or a nuisance;

                            Although in reality this allows a pragmatic assessment to be made by the Local Authority. Good luck - I think you're right about good fire management, though maybe inviting neighbours round for an occasional pizza may go a long way!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: UK builders - planning permission/smoke control areas?

                              What is the problem here I ask?
                              How many of the forum members experience a lot of smoke from their ovens when they are burning?

                              With every firing that I have with my Pompeii, there is almost no smoke emitted from the flue especially 2 to 3 minutes after lighting. Yes, I do have a little smoke until the kindling wood catches and begins to burn fiercely with a good supply of air to the fire base.
                              I have 2 metal tripods that are around 3" high and a foot long that I push screwed up newspaper under, stack a reasonable amount of lightish split kindling wood over the paper (teepie style) and top it with split pine and hardwood pieces. The rougher the split wood, the qiuicker it catches and burns. See picture 1

                              When the paper is lit, it burns quite well, especiall when the air is directed to the base of the fire and around to the back of the fire with the plate that I trialled on the last 2 firings. (picture 2). Within 3 minutes, the fire is so hot and burning that there is no smoke emitted at all from the oven or chimney.
                              I then continue to add split eucalyt hardwood, (River red gum) up to around 3"x5"and a foot or so long. However, I ensure that all wood is thoroughly dead and dry. No green or freshly cut wood is used in the oven I do occasionally burn it in my slow combustion room heater when desperate without problems if used in a HOT fire..
                              If I want it it get going even hotter, I use a pertol leaf blower idling and pointed at the base of the oven door from around 10 feet back. The fire gets so hot that it is almost like a blast furnace and again absolutely no smoke.

                              Many years ago, a friend who had a 120 acre stone fruit orchard and I rolled into the ordhard a truck tyre, some kindling wood and a small newspaper. He laid the tyre down Pput the screwed up paper and kindling inside one part of the tyre and lit it. The tyre caught fire and heaps of black smoke was produced. He then chain sawed numerous self sewn walnut trees down and my job was to throw them onto the fire and smoke. The white sap dripping freshly cut green leafed tree brabches caught fire and burnt fiercly and all of the black tyre smoke disappeared. Next day, we retrieved the steel bands from the tyre and spread the wheel barrow load of ash around from the 30-40 odd trees that we burnt.

                              I also used to work part time for a mechanic 35 years ago and he burnt all the old sump and transmission oil through a jet and mixed with a blast of air. He used this to heat his hot water parts washer and steam cleaner, again, no smoke as soon as the system got hot.

                              What we derived from this is that if you get your fire going and hot, no matter what you burn, no smoke will be generated.

                              Neill
                              Attached Files
                              Prevention is better than cure, - do it right the first time!

                              The more I learn, the more I realise how little I know


                              Neillís Pompeiii #1
                              http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/f8/n...-1-a-2005.html
                              Neillís kitchen underway
                              http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/f35/...rway-4591.html

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