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Building Code Approval and Engineering - Forno Bravo Forum: The Wood-Fired Oven Community

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Building Code Approval and Engineering

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  • Building Code Approval and Engineering

    Hi All,

    I am a newbie to the forum, but I have just completed a double door 48" oven, and after the fact my building dept. is requesting engineering.

    Has anyone has to address engineering before for an oven that is in the exterior wall of a house? Any advice? Specs? Calcs? Etc?

    Thanks,
    Andy
    Hood River, OR

  • #2
    Re: Building Code Approval and Engineering

    If you are trying to get building approval after the fact, you are heading uphill. Generally speaking, if it is part of the house, you need a building permit sooner rather than later.

    Here's how building code works. Building code is a collection of best practices, so you don't have to get structural engineering work done on routine jobs. In theory, anything that falls outside of the UBC needs to be run by a structural engineer, to protect all concerned. If done in advance, many building code officers can be convinced that a wood fired oven is a kitchen fireplace, and can be built under the existing code for masonry fireplaces. This is still worth a try.

    The last time I had to hire a structural engineer on a project (to determine floor loads for a machine tool) it was MAJOR money. Good luck.
    My geodesic oven project: part 1, part 2

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Building Code Approval and Engineering

      [QUOTE=dmun;25956]

      <snip>

      If done in advance, many building code officers can be convinced that a wood fired oven is a kitchen fireplace, and can be built under the existing code for masonry fireplaces. This is still worth a try.

      <snip>

      In Oz, we have the ubiquitous barbeque, for which in many local government areas NO prior approval is needed!

      In my case, I went to my council to ascertain their policy on BBQs, which in essence said that if it's no closer to a neighbour's fence than 3m and no higher than 1.8m, no approval is needed.

      Hence, we've broiled many a juicy lamb chop in our WFO, a.k.a. a stone covered BBQ...

      Cheers,

      LMH
      "I started out with nothing, and I've still got most of it"

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Building Code Approval and Engineering

        I would bet though in a suburban not a rural environment in Oz they would ask to see your engineering/working specs if it was made as a wall of the house.


        --mr.jim
        --mr.jim
        ---------------------------------------------------------------
        The real art of conversation is not only to say the correct thing at the right time, but also to leave
        unsaid the wrong thing at the tempting moment.
        ---------------------------------------------------------------

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Building Code Approval and Engineering

          As part of the house, sure...
          "I started out with nothing, and I've still got most of it"

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Building Code Approval and Engineering

            az,
            Bummer
            The thought of going through engineering after the fact makes me a bit queesy. A couple of hundred bucks might cover the engineering, but if your oven isn't up to code - then what? Take it down?? Sad to see that this was your first (and likely last post). I'd love to hear how your tale turns out in the end.
            GJBingham
            -----------------------------------
            Everyone makes mistakes. The trick is to make mistakes when nobody is looking.

            -

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Building Code Approval and Engineering

              ....I recently realised that I should have applied for planning permission for my oven. Well I knew it really, but I recently fully realised that I really really should have...

              So maybe its just as well there aren't too many Swiss on this forum...

              Luckily the oven is in a hidden corner, the neighbours on that side are all easy going, and we have a neat little law in Switzerland that says when something has been standing for ten years without anyone grumbling you're allowed to leave it there.
              "Building a Brick oven is the most fun anyone can have by themselves." (Terry Pratchett... slightly amended)

              http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/f8/p...pics-2610.html
              http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/f9/p...nues-2991.html

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Building Code Approval and Engineering

                Thanks Everyone,

                The thing about this oven and the engineering, is that I pulled a permit (along w/ a 2900 Sq. ft. home. It is on my mechanical permit, It is on my plans, and now they want engineering. They saw everystage of the process from a 12" thick footing, to a way over built stem wall, 8" slab deck with #4 rebard grid every 6", tied to the footing. They have inspected the house and structure and mechanical multiple time. And after all of this ---- NOW they freak about the dome falling down.

                My engineer now has the plan details, but I am confused. Haven't people been building these ovens for thousands of years? Has anyone actually seen evidence of one collapsing? I think it is all CYA (cover your a --!).

                Does anyone have previous engineering for a dome? Maybe FornoBravo directly? I cannot be the first person to have crossed this bridge.

                Thanks Andy

                p.s. I will try to post photos soon.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Building Code Approval and Engineering

                  Andy.....I suppose you can always get one of the planning boffins to become a convert on here...

                  OR you could invite one to "test the dome" - few good pizzas (and copius amounts of red wine)....
                  Cheers
                  Damon

                  Build #1

                  Build #2 (Current)

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Building Code Approval and Engineering

                    Hey Andy,

                    That sounds pretty frustrating. This is definitely the first time I have ever heard anyone worry about the dome falling down -- that's pretty out there.

                    We don't have any engineering doc's on the Pompeii plans -- really, each one is different, and up to the technique of the builder. I think you should be able to talk him out of this one.

                    Good luck.
                    James
                    Pizza Ovens
                    Outdoor Fireplaces

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Building Code Approval and Engineering

                      ...and what's the wost that could happen? The oven bricks all fall into the oven hearth? Unless you're inside the oven, no one will get hurt. The engineer your using shoud be able to confirm that the heart is of suitable strenght to hold up the dome.
                      I suggest you print up 20 - 30 pics of successful domes and present them along with whatever engineering you come up with. They're obviously lost and worried that they might make a mistake. Never admit ignorance, huh?
                      GJBingham
                      -----------------------------------
                      Everyone makes mistakes. The trick is to make mistakes when nobody is looking.

                      -

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Building Code Approval and Engineering

                        I dunno if it'll help at all, but I just remembered a thread with this link in it (and actually found it again...!) George's idea sounds good, too. Good luck, and keep us informed on how it goes!

                        Auroville Earth Institute is a research, design and developing agency for vaulted structures, construction of various Vaults, Arches, Domes (VAD).
                        "Building a Brick oven is the most fun anyone can have by themselves." (Terry Pratchett... slightly amended)

                        http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/f8/p...pics-2610.html
                        http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/f9/p...nues-2991.html

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Building Code Approval and Engineering

                          James,

                          Thanks for the reply. Sorry to ask for "tech support" on a free plan. Tammy has been great also.

                          I think I have a path. My engineer and I came up with a way to band the first course of the dome and than a skim coat over that band with a cement/vermiculite mix of a couple inches. Than I can get "a stamp", and my county has covered themselves.

                          I will fire of pics and plans to the forum, when I have time. The oven is cool! It has two doors, one inside the building's kitchen and one outside on the terrace. It is a key feature to a new Tuscan home that I am building.

                          The mouths of the oven both have a flange that I plug with a metal/firebrick door, that cuts off the air to one of the two chimneys, and still provides thermal mass to the unused side.

                          It makes great pizza for our Friday Pizza & Beer after my guys work a long week on the house.

                          Thanks

                          Andy Zuck
                          Hood River, OR

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