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Won't be starting - Pizza ovens banned by local council

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  • Won't be starting - Pizza ovens banned by local council

    Can I light an outdoor fire or brazier on my residential property?

    It is not possible to light an outdoor fire or brazier on a property zoned residential - there is a total outdoor fire ban in place on residential sections throughout Canterbury all year around. This includes pizza ovens.

    Stupid, stupid, stupid ! Seems odd as thereís a much higher risk with a portable open metal tray BBQ often on flimsy legs with no flame control, versus an enclosed brick oven with a spark arrestor flue ! I've asked why but they've simply said no

  • #2
    Re: Won't be starting - Pizza ovens banned by local council

    If fireplaces were allowed... I would make it an indoor oven. You would need to check with your local building people.

    In my area if a roof structure is connected to your home say like a sun room then that is considered inside. But you will also need to check with your insurance company.

    I would love my oven in a sun room, year round baking. Open some big doors to the patio.

    It will cost more but you will have a killer oven area.

    Just my thoughts.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Won't be starting - Pizza ovens banned by local council

      Zero installations are allowed, outdoor or indoor. There's been clean air rules for years slowly restricting use of old house open fire places, requiring approved inserts to be fitted. In recent years that changed to never allow new installations of even the approved clean burning inserts. All new houses have to be electric or gas heated.

      But there has always been an exemption for fire used for cooking so WFO, BBQs, etc were ok. Sadly seems no more though

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Won't be starting - Pizza ovens banned by local council

        That is truly a bummer!!! Time to move? Else, run for office.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Won't be starting - Pizza ovens banned by local council

          Gudday
          Hasn't forno bravo got a gas conversion for an oven . A proper one with a safety cut out if the flame goes out.
          Regards dave
          Measure twice
          Cut once
          Fit in position with largest hammer

          My Build
          http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/f51/...ild-14444.html
          My Door
          http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/f28/...ock-17190.html

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Won't be starting - Pizza ovens banned by local council

            [QUOTE=uk_exile; In recent years that changed to never allow new installations of even the approved clean burning inserts. All new houses have to be electric or gas [/QUOTE]

            That's a pity because both electricity and gas mean using fossil fuels adding more CO 2 to the planets atmosphere. A wood fired oven relies on renewable wood which is carbon that is already in the system. So while banning WFO's might reduce local smoke emissions, when looking at the bigger picture forcing people to use gas or elec. is more polluting.
            Sounds like beauracracy out of control again.
            Kindled with zeal and fired with passion.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Won't be starting - Pizza ovens banned by local council

              Originally posted by david s View Post
              That's a pity because both electricity and gas mean using fossil fuels adding more CO 2 to the planets atmosphere. A wood fired oven relies on renewable wood which is carbon that is already in the system. So while banning WFO's might reduce local smoke emissions, when looking at the bigger picture forcing people to use gas or elec. is more polluting.
              Sounds like beauracracy out of control again.

              Ditto what David said.

              Allowing timber to decay on the ground releases more carbon in the form of methane than you would get from burning the timber.

              Uk Exile, whats the fine for having a fire, maybe the entertainment value will outweigh the fine?
              Last edited by brickie in oz; 01-16-2013, 01:59 AM.
              The English language was invented by people who couldnt spell.

              My Build.

              Books.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Won't be starting - Pizza ovens banned by local council

                Originally posted by brickie in oz View Post
                Ditto what David said.

                Allowing timber to decay on the ground releases more carbon in the form of methane than you would get from burning the timber.
                Sorry Brickie, I'm not trying to be a smart arse, but I don't believe that is quite right, although I'd love to see the evidence of your claim.
                Methane is a far more potent greenhouse gas than CO2, but,
                Rotting animal or vegetable material only produces methane (CH4) in the absence of oxygen (anaerobic) like being underwater or buried underground. Above ground it will rot and the reaction with oxygen (aerobic) is different, producing ammonia (NH3) ,bye bye to nitrogen into the atmosphere. In anaerobic digestion the nitrogen remains behind as a valuable fertilizer. Once taught a student from Canada who used to go out into the middle of frozen lakes where a bubble of methane forms. He would hammer a large screwdriver through the ice and on removal light the escaping gas for a fun flame. with the gas under pressure it is apparently quite spectacular.
                Last edited by david s; 01-16-2013, 04:30 AM.
                Kindled with zeal and fired with passion.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Won't be starting - Pizza ovens banned by local council

                  uk_exile,
                  I would be hanging around the council properties collecting evidence, getting article published in the local rag and newspapers, make an appointment with your local MP, stir up s**t and aim it at those responsible. Even find the mayor's address and have it and other concllors checked out, offer a reward for evidence of burning, smoke etc and be a real pain to the council. Especislly check the council dump, see if they burn!
                  Check out the local Country Fire Services as they need to have burns to train their recruits, more evidence!
                  If and when you get photos, send them to the council with an email which is also "cc'd" to the media, (radio stations, TV, newspapers etc), government officials MP's and see what happens! One of them will pick it up and run with it as the council will see who is receiving that email and information.
                  Put and add in the paper and drum up other supporters to add weight and contacts to your plight but whatever you do:
                  DON'T GIVE UP!
                  What can they do but relax or over rule their regulations!
                  Another option is to get a group as large as possible and front the council at their meeting or especially AGM. See if you can get a special meeting with the group and media also.

                  It's worth the fight.

                  Good luck.

                  Neill
                  Last edited by nissanneill; 01-16-2013, 03:56 AM.
                  Prevention is better than cure, - do it right the first time!

                  The more I learn, the more I realise how little I know


                  Neillís Pompeiii #1
                  http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/f8/n...-1-a-2005.html
                  Neillís kitchen underway
                  http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/f35/...rway-4591.html

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Won't be starting - Pizza ovens banned by local council

                    How about a bonfire outside the council chambers? There must be a few local witches you could cleanse with fire.
                    We could be like the gun lobby, "they're not gonna take away ar pizza ovens, ova ma ded body"
                    Last edited by david s; 01-16-2013, 04:07 AM.
                    Kindled with zeal and fired with passion.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Won't be starting - Pizza ovens banned by local council

                      Gudday
                      Ive been thinking about this a bit, like everyone else, it goes again't everthing we do here and no wonder it has sparked such a reaction. My neighbours a New Zealander and comes from Canterbury originally and I had a yak to him.
                      He was aware that gradually the council was doing away with burning anything in the area because the area is basically in a basin surrounded by higher ground.
                      He said in the old days (yep he's in his late 70s) smoke was a problem. Household rubbish was burn't in the back yard this include leaves and branches particularly in autum sundays were a day of smoke. Houses were heated by open fires and stoves were wood burning. All of these methods were not efficent and produced a lot of fine particles in the air that in the colder wheather would stay closer to the ground and were a health hazard.
                      But to include WFO oven in this is crazy we all know our ovens don't produce visible smoke because they burn thing so efficently. I know my oven doesn't add to the pollution in my local area. Someone in my street has a wood fire going in the winter mths go to the bottom of the street on a winter morning the smoke is thick and visible. I been down there when my my oven is burning and nothing.... no visible smoke and no smell. Only my closest neighbours know I have flashed the oven up as they can smell smoke for the first say 10 mins then when its hot ...nothing.
                      I checked again with the council this morning on WFO and they still class them the same as an outdoor BBQ unless they recieve complaints for smoke they are not worried. There only concern it seems it I didn't burn rubbish in it....as if.
                      I don't have a solution for uk-exile ....fight city hall? or gas fire it and sneak a coupla sticks of wood in when hot for effect?

                      Regards Dave
                      Measure twice
                      Cut once
                      Fit in position with largest hammer

                      My Build
                      http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/f51/...ild-14444.html
                      My Door
                      http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/f28/...ock-17190.html

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Won't be starting - Pizza ovens banned by local council

                        I'm chasing ECAN repeatedly and they're responding semi postively when I pointed out there are major suppliers (Bunnings, Mitre 10, =equiv to US Home Depot) selling pizza ovens and that there will be plenty of non aware non compliant rate payers. I asked several suppliers how they were able to sell the ovens & I've given their responses to ECAN too.

                        Apparently the regs are getting revisited again later this year. I've suggested change of wording in Air Quality chapter of the Natural Resources Regional Plan (NRRP) to accommodate 'cooking appliance'.

                        Current ECAN response is Outdoor pizza ovens are classed as ‘outdoor burning [fires]’ in our Air Quality chapter of the Natural Resources Regional Plan (NRRP). Because the definition of ‘outdoor burning’ does not specifically accommodate for pizza ovens like it does for hangis (and extended to include umus) and bbqs, then it falls back to the outdoor burning rules.
                        As they are classed as an outdoor burn, they can't be used in residential areas and/or Clean Air Zones (during winter months) – as per Rules AQL29 and AQL35, for Christchurch Clean Air Zones.
                        They would require a resource consent under AQL29A and would be assessed as a non-complying activity. Please note that these are very rarely issued to applicants, and the ones that have been issued have been for commercial premises.
                        If you are wanting to have some kind out out door pizza oven install, please note that if a pizza oven uses gas then that is fine.



                        p.s. majority of NZ electricity generation is renewable hydro generation topped up with coal, gas, oil
                        Last edited by uk_exile; 01-16-2013, 06:58 PM.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Won't be starting - Pizza ovens banned by local council

                          uk_exile,
                          I would delete the word Pizza from your oven in all discussions and simply refer to it as a wood fired oven. You primarily want it to cook in, roasts, breads etc and pizzas are just one thing on an ever expanding list.
                          When you light up an oven fire it only smokes for a couple of minutes until it really gets going and then clear chimney emissions, (well mine does anyway).
                          If all else fails, then you could experiment by putting into your chimney a small steel barrel type fan and force all smoke and emissions through a water container or heavy misted section of horizontal chimney that would settle all smoke/soot particles, so that no one would even know that you had a fire going.
                          I would not give up but keep pressure on the authorities.

                          Good luck and keep us informed.

                          Neill
                          Prevention is better than cure, - do it right the first time!

                          The more I learn, the more I realise how little I know


                          Neillís Pompeiii #1
                          http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/f8/n...-1-a-2005.html
                          Neillís kitchen underway
                          http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/f35/...rway-4591.html

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Won't be starting - Pizza ovens banned by local council

                            I am sure that there is a treaty of waitangi item that assured people were allowed traditional cooking rights - meaning cooking with fire outside. (Not joking - serious). I know you are not Maori - but the right applies to all. Could be the easiest way to get this thru.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Won't be starting - Pizza ovens banned by local council

                              Originally posted by Tank View Post
                              I am sure that there is a treaty of waitangi item that assured people were allowed traditional cooking rights - meaning cooking with fire outside. (Not joking - serious). I know you are not Maori - but the right applies to all. Could be the easiest way to get this thru.
                              I did a search and found this reference

                              Scrumptious Earth Oven
                              Maori had an ingenious way of cooking food that is still popular today, and a must for any visitor to try! The hangi, or umu, is an earth oven built in a large pit. Special stones are placed over a fire of wooden sticks. A layer of green flax is laid above the stones, and then layers of meat and vegetables are placed between more layers of flax. A mat covers the oven. Water is then placed on the hot stones, which steams the food. Slow cooking makes the food extremely tender, while the wood and the flax infuse the food with a beautiful delicate and smoky flavour.

                              I would find it hard to believe an open pit oven wit green flax would not create a great deal of smoke and was also outlawed as it appears to be a traditional way of cooking. As the reference says "still popular today"

                              Chip
                              Chip

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