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Which breads go first? - Forno Bravo Forum: The Wood-Fired Oven Community

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Which breads go first?

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  • Which breads go first?

    So I've been thinking about how to schedule my baking in terms of which breads handle the hotter first load best, and vice versa. For example, I know that baguettes do well in the first bake because the insides finish right when the outside gets to a perfect brown, but the raisin bread, with a lot of sugars that brown the crust, does best in the cooler oven of the last load, so that it doesn't turn black before the inside finishes. I've also been putting ciabatta and foccacia into the first load. Does anyone else have some favorite breads that work well when the ovens is still on the hot side?

  • #2
    Re: Which breads go first?

    One of my favourites for a hot oven is the no knead bread which cooks in a cast iron pot. The recipe is in the e-book and you can bake it at 290 C (550 F).

    If I could add another question to this thread, are there any breads that can bake in a cooler oven, say 180 C (356 F)?
    "Building a Brick oven is the most fun anyone can have by themselves." (Terry Pratchett... slightly amended)

    http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/f8/p...pics-2610.html
    http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/f9/p...nues-2991.html

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    • #3
      Re: Which breads go first?

      Thanks, I'll check that out.

      For cooler breads, Jeffrey Hamelman, Bread: A Baker's Book of Techniques and Recipes, talks about a traditional pumpernickel that old German bakers would do as the last load at the end of the week, overnight with the door open, so it would cook in a gradually cooling oven.

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      • #4
        Re: Which breads go first?

        Frances,

        As a general rule, breads, particularly pan breads, that are made with enrichments prefer a cooler oven and do not need to bake to such a high internal temperature (190 F vs 205). Enrichments might include butter, eggs, milk and so on.

        Jim
        "Made are tools, and born are hands"--William Blake, 1757-1827

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        • #5
          Re: Which breads go first?

          For breads cooked at cooler temps, there's a thread about challah and a photo of an amazing looking loaf here:
          http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/f11/challah-1347.html

          Drake says it's cooked around 370F.

          Also, something I don't see too much of here is quick (non-yeast) breads - zucchini bread, pumpkin bread, soda bread, corn bread, banana bread, etc. Not 'artisanal' like yeast breads, but still delicious in their own right! They're all generally cooked at about 350F or maybe 375F. These might need to go on a rack so the bottoms wouldn't burn due to sugar content though.

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          • #6
            Re: Which breads go first?

            I have been able to do baguettets first, then ciabatta, then sourdough small rounds, then lager sourdough loaves, then rye breads all in one day...

            Drake
            My Oven Thread:
            http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/f8/d...-oven-633.html

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            • #7
              Re: Which breads go first?

              The real problem, of course, is finding enough people to eat all the bread
              "Building a Brick oven is the most fun anyone can have by themselves." (Terry Pratchett... slightly amended)

              http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/f8/p...pics-2610.html
              http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/f9/p...nues-2991.html

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              • #8
                Re: Which breads go first?

                Originally posted by Mypsi View Post
                Thanks, I'll check that out.

                For cooler breads, Jeffrey Hamelman, Bread: A Baker's Book of Techniques and Recipes, talks about a traditional pumpernickel that old German bakers would do as the last load at the end of the week, overnight with the door open, so it would cook in a gradually cooling oven.
                A bavarian pumpernickel most likely...square and very dense...lots of whole grains...fun to eat but somewhat tough to replicate...from what I have found out is in most cases it is not a yeasted bread but is rather a soda bread
                Best
                Dutch
                "Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity. " Charles Mingus
                "Build at least two brick ovens...one to make all the mistakes on and the other to be just like you dreamed of!" Dutch

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Which breads go first?

                  Originally posted by CanuckJim View Post
                  Frances,

                  As a general rule, breads, particularly pan breads, that are made with enrichments prefer a cooler oven and do not need to bake to such a high internal temperature (190 F vs 205). Enrichments might include butter, eggs, milk and so on.

                  Jim
                  G'day Jimbo! Are you sure you meant 190F vs 205 (F)??? I am desperately trying to figure out the right temperatures for baking breads and rolls in my forno... I think you meant Celsius, perhaps?!

                  Cheers,

                  LMH
                  "I started out with nothing, and I've still got most of it"

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Which breads go first?

                    Carioca,

                    Nope, not C, but F. Lean dough hearth breads are officially baked at an internal temp of 205 Fahrenheit, while enriched breads are official at 190 Fahrenheit. These are guides only. For a full bake on a hearth bread, it's always worthwhile to pull one and give it a bit of a squeeze. If the crust gives, squishes from the sides, it's not quite done, so give it another few minutes. For pan or enriched breads, after 190 is reached, I normally give them about two minutes more toward the cooler mouth of the oven. These techniques ensure full crust development and interiors that are moist but not gummy. Beyond that with hearth breads, it really depends on how chewy you want the crust to be.

                    Jim
                    "Made are tools, and born are hands"--William Blake, 1757-1827

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Which breads go first?

                      mypsi,
                      I was raised in Ypsilanti, ND - small farm town of 200. Always knew we had a big brother town.
                      RCLake

                      "It's time to go Vertical"
                      Oven Thread

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                      • #12
                        Re: Which breads go first?

                        I believe Inishta's wondering about the heat of the oven. Correct me if I'm wrong Cjim - 550 F for hearth/artisan breads, 400 - 450F for enriched doughs (guessing on that last one). The internal temps given above are the point at which the various breads were done.
                        GJBingham
                        -----------------------------------
                        Everyone makes mistakes. The trick is to make mistakes when nobody is looking.

                        -

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                        • #13
                          Re: Which breads go first?

                          Thanks for the elucidation, Jim - although it would be no mean feat to measure the internal temperature of anything in the forno :-)

                          I had of course assumed you were talking about the OVEN temperature...

                          Thank you also for the practical tips! I am going to bake a few more rolls this afternoon - at the moment the oven internal temperature is about 450F (top of dome).

                          Ciao,

                          LMH
                          Last edited by carioca; 03-04-2008, 11:46 PM. Reason: spelling
                          "I started out with nothing, and I've still got most of it"

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                          • #14
                            Re: Which breads go first?

                            Carioca,

                            Whoops, should have been more specific. When I refer to baking temps, I'm mean the temperature of the hearth bricks. When I refer to cooked bread temps, I mean the internal temp of the loaves. To get these last, I use a high speed digital probe thermometer. Details about that are in the WFO Bread Book available on the home FB site.

                            George,

                            Hearth temps for pan or enriched breads are a bit of a movable feast. Below 400 is probably ideal, although I'll be baking some biscuits this week with White Lily Flour provided by Dutch that calls for a 500F home oven, so I'll probably bake them at about 450 on the oven floor. Between 500 and 550 is the perfect environment for, let's say, 1 kilo (2 lb) sourdough boule.

                            It's wise to remember that each oven differs somewhat. These temps work well in mine, but minor adjustments up or down might be required in another.

                            Jim
                            "Made are tools, and born are hands"--William Blake, 1757-1827

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                            • #15
                              Re: Which breads go first?

                              Jim
                              Spot on for the biscuits as far as hearth temp! Many restaurants in this area use stone deck ovens for their biscuits and it is usually in the 450 to 475 degree range. Don't know if we mentioned it in the note but, if you place the biscuits a bit tighter together and to the edges on the sheet you will get a higher and fluffier end product!
                              Best of luck!
                              Dutch
                              "Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity. " Charles Mingus
                              "Build at least two brick ovens...one to make all the mistakes on and the other to be just like you dreamed of!" Dutch

                              Comment

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