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Best sourdough bake so far.

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  • Best sourdough bake so far.

    I have been baking bread for several decades, but the forno is it's own beast. The pizzas and everything else have been coming out great. The bread has been a bit of a learning curve. But, this week I finally hit it right. Hopefully I can repeat this success. This is sourdough at 80% hydration, 24 hr cold bulk ferment, proofed in cloth, baked on hearth at 475*. Sorry about the lack of a crumb picture.
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  • #2
    Re: Best sourdough bake so far.

    80% hydration? Wow! That's wet.

    Looks good though. How long did you bake?

    I've had good luck with Chad Robertson's Tartine Sourdough - which is ~75% hydration - and that is supposed to be a high hydration loaf.

    http://www.nytimes.com/recipes/10162...try-bread.html
    Last edited by deejayoh; 08-04-2014, 08:26 AM.
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    • #3
      Re: Best sourdough bake so far.

      I put a small pan of water in the oven about 5 minutes before the bread went in. Then I sprayed the oven with a spray bottle immediately before putting in the loaves. I like a lot of steam at the beginning of the bake. The bread was baked for 10 minutes with the door closed. After ten minutes the little pan of water comes out and I leave the door cracked open a little for another 15 minutes. To allow the moisture to escape. these were baked 25 minutes all together internal temp 205*.

      The recipe in the link that you posted is very similar to what I do.
      Last edited by bobmurphy; 08-04-2014, 08:35 AM.

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      • #4
        Re: Best sourdough bake so far.

        Originally posted by deejayoh View Post
        80% hydration? Wow! That's wet.

        Looks good though. How long did you bake?

        I've had good luck with Chad Robertson's Tartine Sourdough - which is ~75% hydration - and that is supposed to be a high hydration loaf.

        Tartine's Country Bread - Recipes - The New York Times
        Remember when using levain/poolish/biga/sourdough as a component in your bread, calculation of baker's percentage can be done in one of two ways. The first considers the addition as a discrete ingredient, the second method uses only the total amounts of flour and water (that means the amounts of flour and water contained by the "starter"). The two calculated hydration levels are not the same even though the dough is identical.

        For example, here's Robertson's "basic" formula:
        Water 750 g, Leaven 200 g, Total flour 1,000 g (900 white+100 whole wheat), Salt 20 g

        In the first method of calculation the 200 g of leaven are treated as an ingredient, so hydration is reported as 75% (750/1000) and leaven is 20% (200/1000). If you use the second method, the leaven is broken into its parts--I'll assume a 50/50 (water/flour) mix on the leaven--adding 100 g to both the flour and water totals. Using this second method, the basic formula becomes water 875 g, total flour 1,100 g and salt 20 g. The hydration level here becomes 79.5% (875/1,100) and you don't have a leaven element calculated.

        I suspect both Bob's and Chad's dough are very similar and the hydration levels are different because two variations of the baker's percentage formula were used. I also suspect that a slice of either bread is delightfully delicious!
        Last edited by SableSprings; 08-04-2014, 12:02 PM.
        Mike Stansbury - The Traveling Loafer
        Roseburg, Oregon ( www.sablesprings.com )

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        http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/memb...gs-albums.html

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        • #5
          Re: Best sourdough bake so far.

          Mike, nothing like two standards to make things simple. Thank you for pointing that out. I forget that there are the two ways as i always just use one of them. I do not count my starter as an ingredient. I count it as flour and water. To 600g of 100% starter I add 400g water, 550g flour, 15g salt. So actually my total is 700g water 850g of flour total amounts. I do not use any fat or sugars in my bread, it's pretty simple stuff. The exciting thing to me is coaxing the flavor from such simple ingredients. It is a very sticky dough i can not kneed it with my hands. I use a spatula. It is actually about 82% the i figure it.

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          • #6
            Re: Best sourdough bake so far.

            I'm with you Bob on using total water & flour for my primary calcs...and then I also do the calculations with the "other" method so I get a feel for the amount of levain or poolish added. Of course, I've put that all into an Excel spreadsheet to keep me on track.

            One thing I add to all my breads now is pale (6-row) malt, ground into a flour. I get it from the local brewery supplies store in whole grain form and grind it in a coffee/spice mill as needed. The malt contains a lot of the enzymes that convert starch to sugar (in the beer making process as well as bread making) and I believe it gives the bread an added dimension. The malt is pretty inexpensive and I think you'll like the addition...I add about 1% (total method ). I use the overnight fermenting at cooler/cold temps with only hand mixing, folding and time for my gluten development...sticky & wet doughs aren't as much of a pain for me now with those techniques--and a quick hand dip in water as needed.
            Last edited by SableSprings; 08-04-2014, 01:25 PM.
            Mike Stansbury - The Traveling Loafer
            Roseburg, Oregon ( www.sablesprings.com )

            Photo albums
            http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/memb...gs-albums.html

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            • #7
              Re: Best sourdough bake so far.

              Great-looking oven spring! Maybe a function of the 'high'-dration?

              Also, I'm wondering what kind of starter you're using? My last few sourdough attempts have fallen flat, and I haven't been able to build enough gluten with 3 or 4 S&F's to get much rise. I'm wondering if its the starter (flavor is great).

              And then again, maybe in my quest for an open crumb I'm under-kneading. Such a conundrum.

              John

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              • #8
                Re: Best sourdough bake so far.

                Originally posted by bobmurphy View Post
                I have been baking bread for several decades, but the forno is it's own beast. The pizzas and everything else have been coming out great. The bread has been a bit of a learning curve. But, this week I finally hit it right. Hopefully I can repeat this success. This is sourdough at 80% hydration, 24 hr cold bulk ferment, proofed in cloth, baked on hearth at 475*. Sorry about the lack of a crumb picture.
                Bob,
                The bread looks great, I can't wait to finish my door and begin baking. Where's the butter?
                Chris

                Link to my photo album:
                https://www.flickr.com/photos/hodgey...7646087819291/

                Link to my build: http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/f21/...nia-19366.html

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                • #9
                  Re: Best sourdough bake so far.

                  Mike - thanks for the hydration 'splanation

                  One thing I will note about the recipe is the cooking time. I've always cooked my loaves in the WFO about 25 mins, like Bob. But the Tartine recipe - using a dutch oven - calls for 20 minutes with the lid on and 20-25 with it off. I find the loaves cooked that way come out much more golden and crusty than the ones I've made in my WFO.

                  I haven't tried a longer bake in the WFO yet, but next time I am going to try leaving them in a bit longer to see if I can get the same crusty-ness. I generally only use the WFO for bread when I'm cooking 4+ loaves. For two loaves I get lazy and use the dutch oven.

                  How long do others bake boules in the WFO?
                  My build progress
                  My WFO Journal on Facebook
                  My dome spreadsheet calculator

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                  • #10
                    Re: Best sourdough bake so far.

                    Mike, I'll try the addition of the malt and see what it does.
                    John, the starter I use is one that I started myself from whole rye flour. I have had it going about five years now. I use it every week and keep it in the refrigerator between uses. I usually feed it twice at 12 hour intervals before making bread.
                    Chris, my first door was a piece of cardboard. Go for it.
                    Deejyoh, I was not getting a decent crust on my bread either. Then I realized that I needed to crack the door a little for the last 2/3 of the bake time. Got a let that steam out.
                    Last edited by bobmurphy; 08-05-2014, 05:16 PM.

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                    • #11
                      Re: Best sourdough bake so far.

                      Thanks Bob. After I got to thinking about it, I may be over-proofing my sourdoughs. Gonna try another batch in the WFO Sunday morning following my daughter's 15th birthday pizza party.

                      Gorgeous peel, BTW.

                      John

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                      • #12
                        Re: Best sourdough bake so far.

                        Thank you John for the complement on the peel. I made it years ago from scraps of walnut and ash. My main hobby is furniture design and construction. Of course the past year spent building the forno has put a stop to all wood shop time. I am looking forward to getting back into the wood shop to finish up a couple of doors for the oven and make a couple more peels. I need a narrow one for placing loaves in the oven. I would also like another big one for pizza party's.

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