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Today's Bread! - Forno Bravo Forum: The Wood-Fired Oven Community

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Today's Bread!

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  • Today's Bread!

    Given the dialogue I have been involved in in recent days regarding bread I decided to upload some details and images from today's bake.

    I mixed three different breads this morning - Volkornbrot, Pandoro, and my own Forrtine (Forrest/Tartine hybrid) boules. While I included a photo of the Volkornbrot, it is the mixing of the boules I wanted to focus on.

    As I used and fed my starter only three days I did not feed it yesterday morning as I usually do. Last night I took 100 grams of starter and added 200 grams of AP and 200 grams of water and let them ferment on the counter overnight. This morning I added 1180 grams of AP flour, 750 gms water, 30 grams of salt, and starter and stirred them together for about a minute, maybe two - to the point where it was sort of uniform - just past the totally ragged point. Then onto my breadboard and about six kneads followed by one S&F (one S&F in my vocabulary is four - one from each edge). Then into an oiled 6 quart (I think) tub. Came back about a half hour later and gave it another S&F. I thought I should do a second but got distracted and didn't. Preformed at the three hour point. Formed boules 20 minutes later. Proofed in linen at room temp of about 70 F for about 2 - 2 1/2 hours.

    NOTE: The dough was 70% baker's percentage. They were baked in cloches in a 465 F oven. 20 minutes with the cloche on, about 12 minutes uncoverd. 208 F internal temp. Two loaves are about 20 minutes underproofed by my taste and two are about right.

    The Volkornbrot is straight from Reinhart's Whole Grain book.

    Enjoy!
    Jay
    Attached Files
    Last edited by texassourdough; 12-15-2011, 09:34 AM. Reason: Correct the Baker's Percentage

  • #2
    Re: Today's Bread!

    Thanks for the technical information, Those loaves are spectacular!

    Who's or what cloches did you use.

    Thanks

    Chris

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Today's Bread!

      Thanks, Chris!

      I got mine years ago from Sur la Table and I don't know the brand. They are unglazed ceramic. I preheat them for an hour at the baking temp.

      I don't get too excited about the nature of the cloche. You can get virtually identical results on a pizza stone with a stainless steel bowl (which is thin and doesn't require preheating!). And Chad Robertson promoted using Lodge Cast Iron Combi Ovens in his book Tartine. That works almost as well. Biggest issue is the base (which is the lid of the combi oven when baking bread) transfers too much heat and most people find a layer of parchment is better than "naked". OTOH, the parchment makes it a lot easier to get the loaf in the cooker lid. Can also use cast iron dutch ovens but getting the bread in the cloche is a great way to get burned.

      For longer loaves you can use roasting pans over a stone. In my experience I can get very similar bread from any of the "cloche" methods (ceramic, cast iron, steel bowl, disposable roasting pan).

      It's not magic. The key is trapping the humidity from the dough so you really gelatinize the crust and get both great oven spring and crust. It is really hard to get the same result in a big empty oven (with only a couple of loaves). Oven humidification methods abound but in my experience the cloche method is the only thing that approximates a WFO.

      Hope that helps!
      Jay

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      • #4
        Re: Today's Bread!

        These look great Jay!!!
        / Rossco

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Today's Bread!

          It's not magic. The key is trapping the humidity from the dough so you really gelatinize the crust and get both great oven spring and crust. It is really hard to get the same result in a big empty oven
          With my gas oven I find it very hard to maintain enough steam to really get the nice shiny crust. I've been thinking more about using a cloche and dumping the cast iron pan and the pump sparyer for steam. Most often I bake a batard shape because it's quick and easy to form and seems to be the shape that allows us to get a piece of bread that fits the plate and need. Anyway because of the shape I need a pan to cover more like the disposable roasting pan. I need to look at the 2nd hand stores and see if I can find a roster lid to use.

          Jay, as always, Thanks for your perspective and insights.

          Chris

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Today's Bread!

            Your idea of a second hand roaster lid is good. Only trick is to find an all metal one for the oven. That should be doable. The biggest trick with a cloche seems to be that within reason the closer the cloche is to the loaf size the better it seems to work. Now there will be a nationwide rush for used lidded roasting pans. And to think, it all began here!
            Jay

            PS: I have found that heavy duty aluminum roasting pans are available in a variety of sizes which is helpful!

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Today's Bread!

              Jay you are the breadmiester still.....
              The English language was invented by people who couldnt spell.

              My Build.

              Books.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Today's Bread!

                Jay, great looking loaves.

                Did you do these loaves in your WFO?

                Also, did you do the S&Fs in the tub, or on the bench?

                Karl

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Today's Bread!

                  What is an S&F?
                  Kindled with zeal and fired with passion.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Today's Bread!

                    I can't take any credit for the roaster lid idea, I think I picked it in a "The Fresh Loaf" forum.. I like the idea that it's a bit more rugged tool.

                    Chris

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Today's Bread!

                      Thanks, Brickie!

                      Hi Karl! They were done in a conventional electric oven. The S&Fs were done IN the rectangular tub. That approach works really well.

                      Hi David! S&F is Stretch and Fold. You can do them in a tub, on a counter, or even in a bucket. They tighten up and "shape" the gluten very quickly. The gluten needs to be formed so an autolyse or rest is necessary, but the stretching elongates and "aligns" the sheets of gluten to give good dough structure quickly. The oiled. rectangular plastic tub is my favorite. Just place the tub in front of you and pick the dough up or lift the far corners and pull the stretched dough toward you and set the edge down on the near side (sort of like folding the dough in half except it won't be "half".) Rotate the tub a quarter turn and repeat. And again, and again. When you have stretched from each side you have done one S&F to my thinking. The dough should be much stronger and more resilient. The number of S&Fs one does is variable. With really wet, slack doughs one might do three full S&Fs every 30 minutes for up to 2 hours but that would be unusual. I usually do one to three S&Fs every 30 minutes with the number varying with how the dough feels. If it is tight and tearing after two S&Fs, stop and let it rest. If it remains super slack, do it again. When it is "right" which is best evaluated IMO with a window pane test, stop!. At the end, I sometimes do less than a full S&F, folding it from one, two, or three sides. If the dough is so tight you lift the whole mass of dough out by the corners you have almost certainly gone too far! (Not a disaster but no point in folding more!) Unfortunately there is no way to describe the touch aspect!) You can find videos on S&F on the web!

                      And, SCChris! I have probably seen that idea there too, but...I will give you credit! One comment on the disposables - I reuse them! Good luck dumpster diving!

                      Good Luck!
                      Jay
                      Last edited by texassourdough; 12-14-2011, 03:58 PM.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Today's Bread!

                        I know I've seen it somewhere in here..
                        Ah, here it is..

                        :-)

                        The other caption that works is "Once I finish this, I only have one more S&F... after... this... corner..."
                        Attached Files
                        Last edited by SCChris; 12-14-2011, 05:16 PM.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Today's Bread!

                          Chris! That is a ROFL!

                          One other comment....to all...if you are serious about bread The Fresh Loaf is killer and deserves exploration. I place myself in the upper middle or so of TFL. There are people on TFL who are far better bakers than me but few have WFO experience and many of those who do are also on this site!

                          Question... Shouldn't the dude in the first picture be wearing a safety harness?
                          J

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Today's Bread!

                            Originally posted by texassourdough View Post

                            Question... Shouldn't the dude in the first picture be wearing a safety harness?
                            J
                            I thought thats were he landed after a night on the booze.....
                            The English language was invented by people who couldnt spell.

                            My Build.

                            Books.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Today's Bread!

                              Thanks jay,
                              So what is the "window pane test"?

                              Dave
                              Kindled with zeal and fired with passion.

                              Comment

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