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New flour and Jays oven technique.

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  • New flour and Jays oven technique.

    New flour and Jays oven technique.

    I got some new flour the other day that is available from Coles and Woolies supermarkets, it was recommended on another forum.
    Laukes Wallaby Bakers Flour.

    Bakers | Laucke Flour Mills

    The results so far with a few buns looks encouraging, I did the buns while the oven equalises before I put the loaves in.

    I followed Jays very helpful post about cleaning all the coals out first, a first for me as I usually leave coals in.

    http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/f11/...html#post86639
    The English language was invented by people who couldnt spell.

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  • #2
    Re: New flour and Jays oven technique.

    I burnt the bread....

    I flashed the oven up to 350c, took out the coals, let it equalise for 2 hours closed up but it was obviously too hot.
    There was even a hot spot at the back of the oven as the bread nearest it is now a very dark brown..

    This technique has lots of merit, I just have to work on my oven management skills a bit.

    Next time.....
    Last edited by brickie in oz; 12-09-2011, 09:04 PM.
    The English language was invented by people who couldnt spell.

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    • #3
      Re: New flour and Jays oven technique.

      Hi Brickie!

      You have highlighted one of my concerns of the (I think) super well-made/insulated ovens versus older leakier ovens. My oven loses about 50 degrees an hour when at 600 degrees. So I can project what the temp will be in advance. I think you have (from what I have heard) a really well made oven. Very low losses. And that is great for pizza but I have wondered if that was really good for bread.

      Methinks a super insulated oven might pose a challenge for bread for it would tend to be too hot? There are workarounds and fixes but...it may be easier if the oven is a bit leaky.

      Welcome your thoughts?
      Jay


      PS: In my experience mopping does amazing oven cooling/temp drop control.....
      J

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      • #4
        Re: New flour and Jays oven technique.

        Thanks Jay.
        The oven after 5 hours of no fire is still at 320c, I did mop the floor about 4 times to clean, cool and add humidity prior to baking.

        Here are some pics, the buns took 10 minutes and are cooked right through but slightly burnt, the loaves I havent tried but as you can see are burnt and flat, they took 20 minutes.
        The hydration was around 65% and had a double rising, one in a cane banneton.

        I have planned a lamb roast for tonight with veggies and wont need to relight the oven, I might give bread another crack tomorrow with out relighting and see how that goes.

        PS:-
        Im very pleased with the new flour I have got, I had one of the buns and it was delish...

        PPS:-
        I must also add that the ambient air temp at the moment is 31c
        Attached Files
        Last edited by brickie in oz; 12-09-2011, 10:39 PM.
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        • #5
          Re: New flour and Jays oven technique.

          Originally posted by texassourdough View Post
          it may be easier if the oven is a bit leaky.
          I do have a flue damper in the chimney, I may have to play around with that next time to have a "predicable" heat loss.

          As always I welcome your input.
          The English language was invented by people who couldnt spell.

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          • #6
            Re: New flour and Jays oven technique.

            Wow! Al!

            Your oven is amazing! Your dome is obviously still rather hot!

            Your boules seem to indicate that your dome may not be very uniform (based on the darker sections of the left boule. The right boule looks pretty good color wise though the minor charring suggests either a spacing issue (too close to the wall) or ???

            You don't show us the bottom but looking at the edges of the loaves it looks like you got the hearth temp about right. You may need to swab the hearth down more early and then seal it to equalize the dome at a lower temp.

            One thought...Did you build the fire to the side or over the whole surface of the oven? The charring seems to be to one side which seems to imply that you might have one side of the dome hotter than the other????

            This is going to sound weird, but try putting a stainless steel bowl over each boule. It will reduce the radiation heat and resolve any humidity issues by acting as a cloche. It will probably give you prettier crust...and solve the charring.

            Good luck!
            Jay

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            • #7
              Re: New flour and Jays oven technique.

              Originally posted by texassourdough View Post
              Hi Brickie!

              You have highlighted one of my concerns of the (I think) super well-made/insulated ovens versus older leakier ovens. My oven loses about 50 degrees an hour when at 600 degrees. So I can project what the temp will be in advance. ....Snip....

              J
              A question Jay

              I'm assuming that your 50 degrees per hour, (probably F, yes?), is with no door on the oven? With my door in place, it would take approximately 18 hours after pizza to be close to 500F. I'll have to chart a baseline without a door. I take it that you are shooting for an oven floor temp of 600F to start baking breads?

              Jay, have you posted your bread and pizza dough recipes somewhere on Fornobravo already? I'd sure like to try one or two of your bread recipes soon.

              Brickie, you and I have some schooling ahead...We need to learn our ovens and find a protocol we can duplicate reliably.
              Lee B.
              DFW area, Texas, USA

              If you are thinking about building a brick oven, my advice is Here.
              Our One Meter Pompeii Oven album is here.
              An album showing our Thermal Breaks is Here.

              I try to learn from my mistakes, and from yours when you give me a heads up.

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              • #8
                Re: New flour and Jays oven technique.

                Originally posted by texassourdough View Post

                One thought...Did you build the fire to the side or over the whole surface of the oven? The charring seems to be to one side which seems to imply that you might have one side of the dome hotter than the other????

                This is going to sound weird, but try putting a stainless steel bowl over each boule. It will reduce the radiation heat and resolve any humidity issues by acting as a cloche. It will probably give you prettier crust...and solve the charring.

                Good luck!
                Jay
                The fire was built at the back of the oven, maybe I should have spread it around before removing it?
                I did put the loaves towards the back and on pizza trays to minimise the bottoms from burning.

                Ill give the SS bowl idea a try.

                Originally posted by Lburou View Post
                A question Jay

                Brickie, you and I have some schooling ahead...We need to learn our ovens and find a protocol we can duplicate reliably.
                We couldnt get a better teacher for bread than Jay thats for sure, Ive been an avid follower of his work since joining the forum.


                The oven was still at 200c this morning at 7.30, the outside air temp is 20c, and its been raining all night.

                Edit:- A pic of the bottom.
                The buns were on a pizza tray too.
                Attached Files
                Last edited by brickie in oz; 12-10-2011, 01:47 PM.
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                • #9
                  Re: New flour and Jays oven technique.

                  Hi Lee!

                  The 50 degrees is degrees F per hour with the door on. However there is a trick to that. That is after about a two hour burn to heat the oven - which is what I do for bread. That is not enough to fully heat load the oven so when I close it up it "equalizes and the heat "spreads out" into the refractory and the temp drops fairly fast. My oven probably loses about 25 degrees an hour after the equalization - with the door closed. I don't pay a lot of attention to that number because except for bread I don't worry much about temp for baking or cooking roasts.

                  I usually target to load bread at about 560 F on the hearth and no more than 600 or so in the dome. When the oven hits 600 I usually clean it out some more/again and mop it a bit to help cool it down. Close it and let it equalize another 15 minutes or so and check the temp and mop again (an almost dry mop...), spray water, load bread, spray another ten seconds, close the door and wait at least 20 minutes before opening it and rotating the loaves.

                  I have been working on a bread guide but symphony board responsibilities have been dominating my life.

                  My bread is super simple. And so is my pizza dough. I mainly use Reinhart's Neopolitan and NeoNeopolitan recipes. I usually make both because I prefer different doughs for different pie toppings.My bread recipe is somewhere on here.

                  At its simplest, I maintain my starter at 100% Baker's Percentage. I feed it twice in the 24 hours before I start bread. I feed it about 7 pm. Then 7 am. Then about 7 pm I actually begin the bread by taking 100 grams of starter and adding 200 of flour and 200 of water. Mix it well and cover with Saran. Leave out all night. Next morning I add about 1250 of flour and 750 of water which is about 67 percent hydration - and 30 grams of salt. Mix it pretty thoroughly. Knead a little. Let it autolyze ten minutes. Knead some more. Let bulk ferment about three to five hours depending on the temp. Form loaves and proof for about 2 1/2 to four hours depending on temp. Bake.

                  Yes there are crazy alternatives like the prehydration of the flour, minimal mixing and development totally with S&Fs but...the above works well.

                  Good luck!
                  Jay

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                  • #10
                    Re: New flour and Jays oven technique.

                    Hi Al!

                    If your bread was on trays, the oven was IMO too hot. And it sounds like for some weird reason your two hour heat soak didn't really equalize the temp much. The goal is a totally uniform oven temp (okay the dome can and will be hotter but... you don't want hot spots.

                    Your oven holds heat well. I think I would try covering the bread with stainless bowls or equivalent if I loaded in a hot oven. You can also mop more aggressively/wetter to drop the hearth faster. (I have been playing with using aluminum roasting pans to cover baguettes and batards with reasonable success in my kitchen oven. The goal there is trapping humidity as well as equalizing temp/radiation profile. In your case it will do both also..

                    Good luck!
                    Jay

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                    • #11
                      Re: New flour and Jays oven technique.

                      Another go at bread, this time I didnt get the oven near hot enough, it started at 250c when I closed it up.
                      I put a SS bowl over the bread and it was like a steamed pudding, took that off and here is the result after 45 minutes.

                      All I have to do is aim half way and Ill be right.....

                      The loaf is very flat at around 75mm, 3"
                      Attached Files
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                      • #12
                        Re: New flour and Jays oven technique.

                        [QUOTE=brickie in oz;124534]New flour and Jays oven technique.

                        I got some new flour the other day that is available from Coles and Woolies supermarkets, it was recommended on another forum.
                        Laukes Wallaby Bakers Flour.

                        Bakers | Laucke Flour Mills

                        /QUOTE]

                        Good recipes on the website...

                        What protein content has the Wallaby flour got?
                        / Rossco

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: New flour and Jays oven technique.

                          Gudday Brickie
                          250C ....wow thats much to hot for baking bread or baking anything for that matter. Thats Max temps of most home ovens... checks mums out.
                          I do a 2 1/2 hr burn then a pizza cook say on the sat night close down the oven with an insulated door.
                          I'm not expecting to bake or cook in that oven till next day at lunch when the temps 200c max better 150c to 180c and I can cook roasts veg and bread rolls for tea. I still have 100c in the oven mon morning and put in a cassorole (covered dish) which is not taken out till mon night. Low and slow with the temps when it comes to baking.
                          If you want a moist oven for baking bread a small cake tin put in the corner and some nuts and bolts and water will give you a moist oven. Gives a chewy crust rather than a dry hard one.

                          Regards Dave
                          Measure twice
                          Cut once
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                          • #14
                            Re: New flour and Jays oven technique.

                            What do the nuts and bolts do? Impart a unique flavour?
                            Kindled with zeal and fired with passion.

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                            • #15
                              Re: New flour and Jays oven technique.

                              Hi Al!

                              How long did you leave the bowl on? 15 to 20 minutes is enough to give you a really well gelatinized crust... Looks pretty. Did you check the internal temp?

                              Put it in an oven at 460 F for about ten minutes and it will darken up some!

                              Interesting!
                              Jay

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