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  • not quite right...

    Lately I've been trying to make sourdough (6 times from two rounds of recipe). I just figured out the last 2 times the oven wasn't hot enough which explains the major time difference I was getting to bake. This whole bread thing came about since I made the brick oven and want to use the leftover heat... but wanted to get some experience under my belt with the regular oven first.

    I'm wondering about the dough prior to putting it in the oven. It seems awfully wet. I mean, I know it's supposed to be wet, but it just seems as if it's too much, however I have no other point of reference...except pizza dough... and i know that isn't the same thing. I've been using the recipe from Artisan Bread in 5 minutes. It seems that doing a dough by percentage would be better, but first I wanted to get this down before going deeper. It seems to require a ridiculous amount of flour on the peel to come off... to the point I have yet to use enough. Does that seem right? Even using a BBQ spatula, it's still very difficult to get it off of the peel. (I did try parchment paper on the first 3....it basically fused itself to the bottom of the bread each time.)
    I've left it sit 40 minutes after taking it out of the fridge prior to placing in the oven. Reading it today, I wondered if I should be letting it rest 40 minutes, then another 20 as the oven warms up? The first boule from the second batch seemed to rise and grow just like i would expect... none of the other 5 have done this.

    I need to search these forums and maybe look into some breadmaking ones, but wanted some opinions here first.
    Thanks
    My oven (for now):
    http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/f43/...ven-14269.html

  • #2
    Re: not quite right...

    Tman some doughs are quite wet but I have not tried to put something so sticky in the oven. The sourdough bread that I put in the oven does have the feel of pizza dough. A great place to learn more about sourdough bread is at "The Fresh Loaf" just google it.

    But for starters be sure your starter is very active. and I would suggest working with weights and not volumes when you mix your dough. I also mix my dough by hand and use the stretch and fold method. Don't under or over proof your dough and oven temp is important. For starters I would look for recipes that have lower hydration rates in the 65% range.
    Hope that is of some help.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: not quite right...

      Yes, The Fresh Loaf... just became a member.. I've also realized that it's not actually sourdough bread.... at least I don't think it is...

      As for the rest of what your saying.. I see the words, I can read the words... but I don't really understand the words.... seems like I have a lot more reading to do.
      My oven (for now):
      http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/f43/...ven-14269.html

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: not quite right...

        I figured some of the words would not have meaning for you. It's kinda a bread head thing. Just keep asking questions. A good book is "The bread builders" by Wing and Scott for a simple approach and Hamelman's "Bread" when your ready to jump in with both feet.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: not quite right...

          I kind of have basic understanding, but not complete knowledge as to what each thing means. Anything I make on my own will be better than most of what I usually buy (for instance, I really don't get complaints from the loaves I've done, just my preferences as to what I want to see). I've been wondering how deep I will actually go into breadmaking. Heck, a couple of months ago I didn't know I'd have a brick oven...
          I did request the Hamelman book from the library. I's starting to wonder if I really need to get that good at bread. Either way I do appreciate the info.

          I'm still wondering how the heck I would slide off a boule from the peel into the wood oven... I have enough difficulty just dealing with the regular one at this point.
          My oven (for now):
          http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/f43/...ven-14269.html

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: not quite right...

            Something is wrong...Reinhart's doughs aren't so wet they should be eating your lunch.

            Newcomers routinely seem to strive to make bread that is wetter than they are ready to handle. Like newbie pizza dough, stay down in hydration - around 60 to 62 percent with AP or no more than 65 with bread flour until you have a few successes and get some of the kinks out. A lot of it is technique and learning. I am mainly doing 74 percent hydration AP and it isn't sticking. And I am not putting a lot of flour on the outside.

            If you think dough is too wet or too sticky, add some flour - but also make sure you are getting adequate dough development! The dough should not be soup! It should be able to hold itself up long enough to form a loaf that rises and not just be a puddle.

            If you put the time and effort into it you will get there.

            Hang in there!
            Jay

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: not quite right...

              Well, maybe I'm getting it right then, since it is holding up, and complete soup. I'll have to figure out the hydration. (Note: I'm not using Reinhart's recipe, but AB in 5)
              My oven (for now):
              http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/f43/...ven-14269.html

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: not quite right...

                Another thing I'm wondering about... I used parchment paper on the first 3 loaves. On each one, the paper actually fused (melted, assimilated) with the bottom of the loaf. I could not peel it off, as it came off in such small pieces I would've spent more time trying to remove it than it did actually baking. I ended up cutting off the bottom. Any ideas on why this might have happened?
                My oven (for now):
                http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/f43/...ven-14269.html

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: not quite right...

                  My mistake...I knew Reinhart didn't write that. But something is WRONG! It shouldn't be that wet.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: not quite right...

                    That's the problem... I have nothing to benchmark it against.
                    My oven (for now):
                    http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/f43/...ven-14269.html

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: not quite right...

                      I'll be trying again this morning with another batch of bread... the first loaf seems to be 'better'... or I finally am using enough flour to prevent sticking...
                      My oven (for now):
                      http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/f43/...ven-14269.html

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: not quite right...

                        ugg.. dissappointment.

                        The boule seemed to rise nicely, it scored nicely and it sang when I took it out of the oven... it even looked nice. Alas, it wasn't meant to be.
                        It was in the oven 15 minutes longer than expected, and still didn't make it to 205* (didn't want to pass 200), creating a burnt taste on the crust. It also is much denser than I suspect it's supposed to be. I'd be happier if I didn't know better. Worse, I did a second loaf thinking it was going so well, and I think the same thing is going to happen since the same signs are all there. The taste isn't good either in my opinion. We were smelling something coming from the fridge and my wife assumed it was the dough since it'd been in there a week, but when I took the lid off, it just didn't seem to smell that bad. I thought it was supposed to get better with a little age? I turned up the actual baking temp just slightly (460*) thinking the oven wasn't accurate. I actually had better luck with the temps at 400*. At this point, it seems like I'll never make it into the brick oven.

                        Maybe I'll get really lucky as one of the authors (Jeff) of 'Artisan Bread in 5 Minutes' will be at a local bookstore tossing pizza and touting his book. Maybe I can squeak some questions in?
                        My oven (for now):
                        http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/f43/...ven-14269.html

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: not quite right...

                          Hello Tman1,

                          I made bread for the first time yesterday using the AB-5 master recipe. It turned out ok except the dough was too dry since the crumb was a little dense. Overall, the result was delicious though. Next time I'll make the dough a little wetter. I read the book from cover to cover and some parts several times as I tried to understand the techniques and instructions for a no knead dough.

                          I bought a wooden peel and put a longer handle on it. The loaves slid off easily with just a little corn meal under them. Re-read the part about parchment paper. Remove it 2/3 through the baking process, then return the loaf back to the oven. I don't think I want to be handling the hot loaves to peel parchment paper off them so will continue with corn meal or semolina flour on the peel. Be sure to use enough. It doesn't need to be a thick layer but a good sprinkle should do fine. You already know what happens if you use too little.

                          In general, if you make good pizza dough and it makes good pizza crust then you might consider that as a baseline for the AB-5 dough. Granted there are varying hydration levels for pizza dough, but it is all bread dough in reality, and should handle in a similar manner. If you have a gram scale then weigh the ingredients for your next recipe. It should provide another baseline for the results the authors intended and reduce the chance for error.

                          Best of luck,

                          Bob
                          Bob

                          Here is the link to my oven number 1 construction photos!

                          Here is the link to my oven number 2 construction photos!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: not quite right...

                            Hi Tman1,

                            A couple of questions. Are you making sour dough, with your old starter? I've only made three loaves of bread in my life and only in the last couple of weeks, but they have been wonderful. I purchased the book,"Tartine Bread", and it states that you should feed your starter, before making your next loaf, and use the young sweet starter as your leven. After mixing your dough, give it an 8 to 12 hour, fermentation rest at room temp of slightly above, folding it once every 30minutes for the first two hours. They also recommend cooking in a stream saturated oven. Last night I added chopped Black Olive, Italian Herbs, Lemon zest and Rosemary Olive oil to my Whole Wheat Sour Dough mix. I'll let you know how it turns out. By the way if you bake with you home oven, try using a cast iron dutch oven(preheated for 20 minute at 500f or 260c, place the bread in the lid and the pot upside down and cook the first twenty minutes(230c) before removing it. This will create steam, cook for an addition 20 minutes uncovered.

                            Laurentius

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: not quite right...

                              Bob, My first loaves were good too. I seem to have lost the touch!

                              I did find out that my wife may be unknowingly sabotaging the bread. Bleached Flour!!! I also will try less water and measuring by weight, probably not all at the same time though. I think the first step will be to have better flour. My wife is now referring to me as a serious baker, so I guess I need to get serious flour.

                              I was able to talk with Jeff (author of ABIF) directly today when I went to the bookstore. Very nice, and very helpful. He encouraged me to try a few things then contact him through his website and we would work it out. I may have to have him over for pizza as he was touting a new book he's coming out with next year for pizza and such.. and I have a brick oven!! Even better, he can bring the dough!
                              My oven (for now):
                              http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/f43/...ven-14269.html

                              Comment

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