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bread video

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  • bread video

    This article in todays NY Times about breadmaking draws upon the low-yeast, high-hydration, long rise methods that pizza makers have been talking about, with a couple of variations: It uses a covered cast iron pan for half the baking to get the needed steam, and it uses no kneeding, and almost no mixing.

    It's from Jim Lahey at Sulivan St. Bakery in NYC.

    Worth a watch. Times articles are only up for a few days.

    Here's the link
    My geodesic oven project: part 1, part 2

  • #2
    David,

    This is very creative. What do you think? A very moist, long-fermented dough that gets just enough steam from the cast iron pan. Crafty. It makes me think back to my many bread experiments where I just overworked the dough -- or pizza parties where an inexperienced pizzaiolo (of child) really works the dough hard to get a good shape, only to make a tough pizza. This system seems very gentle.

    If you have a brick oven, steam and a nice cooking environment are built-in, but if you don't, or want to bake bread without firing the oven, this is pretty spiffy. I'm going to try it.

    Comments anybody? Jim?

    As an off-topic side note, the 1/10th timeshare advertised at the bottom of the page for $650,000 is just up the road. Tuscany is crazy expensive.
    James
    Pizza Ovens
    Outdoor Fireplaces

    Comment


    • #3
      No Knead Bread

      David, James,

      This is very interesting indeed. There are several bakers out there experimenting with this type of thing, one of them is the Englishman, Dan Lepard, in The Handmade Loaf. There are also very low yeast recipes for pizza dough that have very long ferment times.

      I will definitely be trying this method in the near future, but I wonder about the flavour and gluten development using all-purpose flour. Personally, I'd use a 50/50 mix of hard bread and AP. My biggest question is how well the gluten develops without kneading, but the proof will be in the making.

      It looks just too, too simple. No reason it couldn't be done in a brick oven.

      Jim
      "Made are tools, and born are hands"--William Blake, 1757-1827

      Comment


      • #4
        test

        Last night I stirred the dry ingredients together, and added the water, and stirred just enough to make a lump. I used active dry yeast instead of instant, just what I had. I covered it in the mixing bowl with a towel. It didn't take five minutes. It sat overnight at room temperature (instead of my 110 degree cracker warmer). Those used to seeing dough blow up like a baloon are in for a disappointment, but I understand it's not that kind of party.

        I don't have an iron dutch oven, let alone a fancy le cruset number, but I have a heavy cast aluminum one from wagner, with a heavy close fitting lid. I'll use that for the test.

        Pictures and report later.
        My geodesic oven project: part 1, part 2

        Comment


        • #5
          Can't wait to see. If anyone wants a nice enamelled cast iron pan, alla le creuset, but a lot less expensive, check your local Ikea. They have a new line of bakeware, and it doesn't have a plastic handle on the lid. I think I am going to do it.

          Not sure if you can order it online.
          James
          Pizza Ovens
          Outdoor Fireplaces

          Comment


          • #6
            cheaper than le creuset

            I asked my wife to pick one up for me when she went to the store near us recently but she forgot. It looks perfect for oven use:

            http://ikea.shoplocal.com/ikea/defau...80017&offerid=

            Comment


            • #7
              That's it. Thanks. We're heading to our local store to pick one up up on Saturday.
              James
              Pizza Ovens
              Outdoor Fireplaces

              Comment


              • #8
                bread saga



                Here's the dough in the bowl after the 18 hour room temp. rise. Some skin and crusty spots.



                Turned out onto the pastry cloth and spread out.



                Folded once. Really wet, and hard to handle.



                Folded twice, and formed into a rough ball
                My geodesic oven project: part 1, part 2

                Comment


                • #9
                  bread saga



                  The pastry cloth folded over the ball for the second rise



                  The dough ball after a two hour rise. Note the tiny bubble on top.



                  The dutch oven pre-heated in a 500 degree oven for 30 minutes, lid too.



                  Disaster! The dough ball is a sticky mess that sticks to everything. I scrape up as much as I can, and throw what I can get off my hand into the hot pot. I'm pretty much disgusted, and have lost about a quarter of my dough. Needless to say, there is no elegant loaf formation here. Hot lid goes on pot, oven closed.
                  My geodesic oven project: part 1, part 2

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    bread saga



                    Imagine my surprise, half an hour later, to see a perfectly formed little boule in the bottom of the pot, already a lovely tan color. I'm supposed to leave the top off for 20 more minutes, I give it ten.



                    The loaf is too charred on the bottom, and sticks in the center.



                    But it really looks good, like something from a Parisian Boulangerie



                    The bread had big holes, crisp crust, good taste. Just like in the bread basket of a white tablecloth restaurant. I'm very pleased.

                    There's a lot to learn, mostly about handling super-hydrated dough. Clearly the second rise shouldn't be on the pastry cloth, perhaps right on the counter. The dutch oven probably shouldn't be on the very bottom oven position, but one up. The times recipe, as opposed to the video, calls for 475 instead of 500 f, perhaps a good idea.

                    But who could imagine that you could make something that looks and tastes like this with house brand unbleached all purpose flour, in a domestic oven. I feel like my baking skills have taken a leap forward.
                    My geodesic oven project: part 1, part 2

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      How much does dmun want for his Hoosier Cabinet

                      (M) CanuckJim wrote, in part:

                      "It looks just too, too simple. No reason it couldn't be done in a brick oven.

                      Jim"

                      (M) Jim, my usual attached quote of Albert Einstein works too well here:

                      "Everything should be made as simple as possible, ..... but no simpler!"

                      ==========================

                      (M) David,

                      Do you want to sell that old junky Hoosier Cabinet?

                      Ciao,

                      Marcel
                      "Everything should be made as simple as possible, ...
                      but no simpler!" (Albert Einstein)

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Thanks

                        David,

                        Excellent documentation. I watched the video today and printed the text. The pic of your hand does look a bit gross but the end product looks great. I'm sure we will all give it a shot. Is there any reason one couldn't toss in a little garlic, bazil, etc, to give it a different flavor? I'm new at this baking thing - my wife does it all

                        Les...
                        Check out my pictures here:
                        http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/f8/les-build-4207.html

                        If at first you don't succeed... Skydiving isn't for you.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I've started

                          I haven't decided yet whether I'll bake it in the pizza oven or not, but I'll bake a loaf tomorrow night. I'm considering placing the loaf in the pizza oven but placing an inverted pot over it to retain steam. For a solitary loaf in the pizza oven (after making pizza for my son's birthday party) this may be easier than spraying a mist in the oven and sealing with a wet towel. I really should make 2 loaves side by side and compare - maybe I'll bang together another batch tonight.

                          Did you flour the pastry cloth you used, Dmum? It looks like an important step, although clearly the loaf was no worse for the wear.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Bread Saga

                            Dmun,

                            Well done. Sure, there's a learning curve with this, and making pizza and firing an oven and making sourdough, and, and, and. This is your first go. Just think what your fifth will look like. I'll be trying this shortly, too, and we'll see how it goes.

                            Jim
                            "Made are tools, and born are hands"--William Blake, 1757-1827

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by maver
                              Did you flour the pastry cloth you used, Dmum? It looks like an important step, although clearly the loaf was no worse for the wear.
                              Yes, the pastry cloth was covered with bench flour. I think that contributed to the adhesion. The pizza guys keep their dough in lightly oiled plastic bowls. That might be the thing for the second rise. You could just dump it in the hot pot when it's ready. Clearly if the mess I threw in the oven turned into a good looking loaf, it's not really important what it looks like.

                              Originally posted by marcel
                              Do you want to sell that old junky Hoosier Cabinet?
                              This old thing? You don't want it. The original spherical glass sugar container is missing.
                              My geodesic oven project: part 1, part 2

                              Comment

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